October 6

Episode 95: The Career Toolkit with Mark Herschberg

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The Career Toolkit has been described as a multivitamin for your career.

Mark Herschberg’s Biography

I’ve been doing fractional CTPO work while I did a virtual book tour. I’m continuing to do fractional CTO/CPO work but would be open to the right CPTO opportunity full-time. My preferences are for cybersecurity, healthcare, or IOT, but I’ll consider others (just not adtech or cryptocurrencies).

Seasoned executive and cybersecurity expert who can bridge the divide between business and technology. I have started, grown, and fixed startup companies spanning over a dozen different verticals as well as helped two Fortune 500 companies with their internal startup initiatives, and helped create educational programs at MIT and HBS. I typically lead engineering, product, and data science and co-created strategy for the company. Experienced board member.

I’ve created multiple marketplaces (labor, lead gen, video, content, financial) and enjoy constructing marketplaces and surrounding lines of business. I’ve launched products in those spaces as well as messaging, cybersecurity, medical / health, and education, with over a dozen patents to my name across many industries.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn…

Joining Mike today from New York is  Mark Herschberg. Mark is the author of The Career Toolkit – Essential Skills for Success that No One Taught You. Mark has spent his career launching and developing new ventures at startups and Fortune 500s and in academia. He helped to start MIT’s “Career Success Accelerator,” where he teaches annually.

  • Mark’s background in scaling startups
  • Importance of upskilling an organization
  • Topic(s) from The Career Toolkit

Links & Resources Mentioned…

Read The Transcript

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(soft music)

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- Welcome back to the Get
Unstuck and On Target podcast.

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I'm Mike O'Neill with Bench Builders

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and we help growing companies,
especially manufacturers,

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improve their people process
and planning systems,

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so they can scale smarter and faster.

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Joining me today from New
York is Mark Herschberg.

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Mark is the author of
"The Career Tool Book:

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Essential Skills for Success
that No One Taught you."

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Mark has spent his career
launching and developing

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new ventures at startups and Fortune 500's

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and in academia.

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He help start MIT's
career success accelerator

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where he teaches annually.

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I don't typically list degrees,

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but Mark the listing of MIT degrees here

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is very, very impressive.

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And that is you have Bachelor
of Science degrees in physics,

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electrical engineering,
and computer science,

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and that was not enough.

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You've gone on,

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you got master degrees

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in electrical engineering
in computer science.

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Did I get that right?

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- You did.

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- Welcome Mark.

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Glad to have you on this podcast today.

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As we were talking before
we hit the record button,

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there's so many things
that we could talk about

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and so we're gonna take a little bit

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of a across the board approach.

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And the first thing I'd like
to kind of get your input on

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is your experience in starting
and scaling companies.

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Tell us a little more
about that experience.

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- When I left MIT,

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I started out going to classic
startups.com era startups,

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and of course we left the .com era,

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but I've still been doing startups.

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Now, I've been sometimes
one of the first 10 people,

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sometimes person number three or seven

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in those organizations,

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often coming in as an executive.

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Sometimes I've come in a little later.

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That might be as I've
gotten their A round funding

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or sometimes they've been around a while

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and now they're a few years down the road.

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They still consider themselves a startup,

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although they're now making
lots of money and I get brought

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in when they've been
stuck or have problems.

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I've done it as a full time person.

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I've done it as a fractional
CTO or fractional CPO,

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Chief Technology or Chief Product Officer.

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And then I've helped those
Fortune 500 companies who wanted

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to innovate but they just
didn't have the skills in house.

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They needed my expertise
and almost some of them

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have said that DNA that I
bring of that startup approach.

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- Mark it's interesting.

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You describe that you work with
startups and sometimes those

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startups are doing very, very
well, but they get stuck.

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What have you found is
the most common ways

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in which startups get stuck?

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- There are two common
problems I see over and over.

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One of those is what
work to get them here,

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doesn't work going forward.

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Now if you think about your company.

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When you are tiny, when you're starting,

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that first sales call,

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it's all hands on deck.

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It's everyone says, okay,

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show up and oh, the client asked for this.

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Can we do that?

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I don't.

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Okay, let's try to make that happen.

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And it's chaotic and
that's fine for the first

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couple of calls, but that doesn't scale.

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The way you get your first
10 customers is different

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from how you need to get your next 90,

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which is different than
for the process needed

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for the next 900.

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And people do get that
with your sales team.

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You say, hey, I can't do all the sales.

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I'm gonna hire up a sales team.

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And you start building
the marketing collateral,

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that's great,

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but it turns out a lot
of internal processes

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also don't scale.

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What works when you're a
team of three engineers

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does not work when you're
a team of 23 engineers.

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That doesn't work for
a team of 53 engineers

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and your marketing team

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and your product team
and your finance team.

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So what happens is you
have all these processes

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and you know they work because
you've been successful.

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That's how you got here.

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Why mess with success,

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but your challenges going
forward will be different.

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And so what often happens
is this all worked

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and then about 12, 18 months ago

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things weren't working well and you're not

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quite sure why because
you didn't change things.

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But the environment which you operate,

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the challenges you faced have changed

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and you then update your processes.

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- Hmm, you know,

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it's interesting you say
that and that is processes.

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It's not very exciting
to talk about processes,

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but in terms of what those could be,

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it could be the whole gamut of processes.

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You mentioned about the size of the teams.

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Have you found that when an organization

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gets to a certain size,

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in this case I'm talking about
employee size versus revenue,

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have you found that there's
certain critical points

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that organizations kind of hit

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that oftentimes lead
to potential problems.

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- A hundred percent.

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Let me give you an example from
engineering, from my field,

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although I've seen this elsewhere.

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When I have four or five engineers,

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you stick them all in a
room together or stick 'em

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in the same place and
someone has a question,

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so she turns around

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her chair and says,
"Hey, what about this?"

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And someone else says,
"Oh, here's how you do it."

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And that's great.

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You don't need a lot of structure
and meetings and overhead.

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When you have a dozen
engineers and she turns around

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in her chair and says," Hey, I'm stuck."

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She's talking to the
people right next to her.

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But someone else on the
other side of the room

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or in a different set of cubicles,

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doesn't hear that and she thinks,

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"Oh, I don't want get up and walk over."

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But that other person should've
been the conversation.

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So at that stage, you hit
your first inflection point.

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The process you need,

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the way people need to
engage has to be different.

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And the first inflection
point for engineering hits

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somewhere around eight to 10 people.

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You can't have anyone can do anything.

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It starts to be a little
more formal and then you hit

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another inflection point
somewhere around 20 to 25 people,

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another around 50.

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And then you start getting into the rule

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of three which says rule of three.

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This is a process management
people management tool

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that says 5, 15, 50,
150, 500, 1500, 5,000,

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basically tripling each time.

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That's what your
organization needs to change.

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Now the rule of three
is a good rule of thumb.

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In fact, if you look at militaries,

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are often organized around that concept.

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But of course for any individual group,

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you have to look at do
these people interact

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a lot versus they're independent.

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A sales team of 20 people,

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you can manage that because
they're all independent,

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they're all working different territories.

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You just need one manager.

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20 people on engineering team.

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It's hard to have one
director managing 20 people,

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'cause they're not all independent.

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So it's the nature of how the
team interacts with itself.

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It's also the external inputs.

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Do you have a lot of people
from other departments

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coming in and asking questions,

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needing help from this team
that you need to coordinate?

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So rule three is a good start,

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but then you have to look
specifically at the processes

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and flow and dynamics of the team

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to know is it really at
15 or is it closer to 10

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or closer to 20?

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- Mark, you are uniquely positioned

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to talk about startups
and I really appreciate

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your explanation of the rule of three.

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Let me contrast startups

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with Fortune 500 sized organizations.

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What might be examples why a
large fortune 500 company needs

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to bringing in Mark Herschberg?

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- The companies were optimized
for different things.

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So let me give you an example.

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I consulted to a very big Fortune
500 company that would get

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sued according to our legal
department, every single day.

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Every day there was a
lawsuit filed against them.

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Now if you're a startup
that's unfathomable,

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You don't get any lawsuit hopefully, ever.

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Not for years.

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If you're a big corporation,

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think of a company the
size of Amazon or Walmart,

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they're getting sued
probably multiple times a day

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and that's everything from
worker's comp and slip and fall,

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I'm sure there's some harassment,
there's product defects,

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just little things.

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These aren't big lawsuits,

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but they get sued all the time

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and they have this big
legal department that says,

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hey, you know what,

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if we are mopping floors and
not putting up the sign saying

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wet floor, this one lawsuit,

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we could see this happen 10 times a day.

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We have to put in some
process to worry about it.

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At a startup company, you wanna sue me?

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Fine, what's gonna happen?

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You're not gonna get anything

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'cause I'm gonna waste my little

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bit of capital on lawyers,
then you win and I go bankrupt.

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We don't worry about getting sued,

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we shouldn't, the big
company, they should.

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So you have different
needs, different priorities.

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And so this is my version of
the "Innovator's Dilemma."

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If you've read that book by
Clayton Christensen, it says,

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"Big companies are looking
at problems and challenges

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that are worth hundreds of
millions or billions of dollars,

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not opportunities and
challenges worth millions

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or tens of millions."

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But the same thing has
to do with your risk,

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with your processes.

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You are not focused on
these smaller things

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or you have something that's focused on,

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hey we have to make sure we've
avoided every $50,000 lawsuit

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because we'll get them 10 times a day

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and at our scale that's a lot.

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So they are oriented to a
different set of problems

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than what they need to do as a startup

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where we say let's build a new brand.

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And you know what?

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If our brand is terrible,
we'll change the name.

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If you're Disney, if you're
IBM, you can't change your name,

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your brand is worth billions.

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I can change the name if
I'm start up all the time.

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So they don't have the mentality
that when we launched this

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new brand, hey we can try it out.

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If it's bad, we'll change it.

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In fact, a place like Disney

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has an army of people protecting that

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brand and so their
processes are well set up

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for what they have but not well set up

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for that rapid innovation.

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- As I'm listening to
you very well explain

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what I think is relatively complex

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and that is you strike me as being almost

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equally adept at startups as Fortune 500s,

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but you clearly differentiated
what might bring you in

244
00:10:31,611 --> 00:10:34,140
and that's very helpful to know.

245
00:10:34,140 --> 00:10:36,390
One of the things I wanted
to get into is because you've

246
00:10:36,390 --> 00:10:39,850
gone into both sized organizations

247
00:10:41,508 --> 00:10:44,470
and you in your assessment
are looking at talent

248
00:10:45,335 --> 00:10:46,830
and you're looking at what's available

249
00:10:46,830 --> 00:10:49,230
and before we hit record button,

250
00:10:49,230 --> 00:10:51,330
we did this in our pre-interview.

251
00:10:51,330 --> 00:10:55,440
We were talking about
this notion of upskilling

252
00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,630
and that's a term that you know HR folks

253
00:10:57,630 --> 00:11:00,330
might just kind of just rattle off

254
00:11:00,330 --> 00:11:03,150
and people may or may
not know what that means.

255
00:11:03,150 --> 00:11:06,150
When I use a term upskilling
or when you use that term,

256
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:07,500
what does that mean to you?

257
00:11:08,430 --> 00:11:12,030
- We have employees with
certain capabilities

258
00:11:12,030 --> 00:11:14,670
and we want to improve those capabilities.

259
00:11:14,670 --> 00:11:17,970
Now in particular, we often focus on,

260
00:11:17,970 --> 00:11:20,250
oh we're gonna train you
how to use Excel macro,

261
00:11:20,250 --> 00:11:22,470
so you can make better Excel spreadsheets

262
00:11:22,470 --> 00:11:24,240
and yes, very useful.

263
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,820
Or you're a software engineer,
learn a new language,

264
00:11:26,820 --> 00:11:29,850
you're in finance, learn a new
accounting tool, fantastic.

265
00:11:29,850 --> 00:11:33,060
Do that 'cause you're gonna
be using new accounting tools.

266
00:11:33,060 --> 00:11:37,020
But then there are some
universal skills, communication,

267
00:11:37,020 --> 00:11:38,880
leadership, team building,

268
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,850
negotiating and those in
particular tend to give you

269
00:11:41,850 --> 00:11:45,930
a better ROI for the amount
of time invested in them.

270
00:11:45,930 --> 00:11:48,090
And those are the skills
we really wanna see.

271
00:11:48,090 --> 00:11:51,030
And those are the easier ones
to scale because teaching

272
00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:53,100
people that new accounting system,

273
00:11:53,100 --> 00:11:55,440
while that applies to your
five people in finance,

274
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,200
but not the other 95
people in your company,

275
00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,940
but better communication skills,

276
00:11:59,940 --> 00:12:02,400
that's going to apply to everyone.

277
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,250
So if you can invest in these
and there's ways to do it

278
00:12:05,250 --> 00:12:06,663
at little or no cost,

279
00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:09,263
you're going to get a much bigger return.

280
00:12:10,140 --> 00:12:13,050
- If you were to compare upskilling

281
00:12:13,050 --> 00:12:18,050
from a small startup to
a Fortune 500 company,

282
00:12:19,721 --> 00:12:21,660
is the process of assessing that,

283
00:12:21,660 --> 00:12:23,910
is it the same or do
you find it's different?

284
00:12:24,930 --> 00:12:27,183
- I think it's exactly the same.

285
00:12:29,148 --> 00:12:31,581
Now the assessment tools you might use

286
00:12:31,581 --> 00:12:33,750
how you assess 2000 people at once,

287
00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:37,560
might be different at a big
company than a small one.

288
00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:40,980
But I'll say to the
assessment specifically,

289
00:12:40,980 --> 00:12:43,200
it's hard to assess these skills.

290
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,080
I can assess how well
you understand chemistry.

291
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,240
I can give you a chemistry
test and see how many questions

292
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:49,290
you answer correctly,

293
00:12:51,054 --> 00:12:52,380
how well you networked,

294
00:12:52,380 --> 00:12:54,360
how well you lead?

295
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,890
There's no simple type of
formula I can test you on.

296
00:12:58,890 --> 00:13:00,930
There's no fill out this form,

297
00:13:00,930 --> 00:13:04,350
fill in the Scantron and
I'll tabulate the results.

298
00:13:04,350 --> 00:13:07,050
I have to see it and feel it.

299
00:13:07,050 --> 00:13:09,690
And so that part for the
assessment is harder.

300
00:13:09,690 --> 00:13:11,556
But the teaching,

301
00:13:11,556 --> 00:13:13,410
because it's best taught in small units,

302
00:13:13,410 --> 00:13:15,780
that can scale whether
you're a small company

303
00:13:15,780 --> 00:13:16,730
or a large company.

304
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,850
- Now for those who are
watching on YouTube,

305
00:13:20,850 --> 00:13:24,840
they saw me smile because here you are

306
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,640
with a physics degrees,

307
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,050
electrical engineering degrees,

308
00:13:28,050 --> 00:13:31,619
computer science degrees and
you're talking about the type

309
00:13:31,619 --> 00:13:35,283
of thing that kind of
falls into my bailiwick.

310
00:13:36,254 --> 00:13:37,170
You you said that technical training,

311
00:13:37,170 --> 00:13:41,610
yes it is important but the
biggest return on the investment

312
00:13:41,610 --> 00:13:43,380
are these other things you mentioned,

313
00:13:43,380 --> 00:13:46,240
communication skills,
the people skills side

314
00:13:48,284 --> 00:13:50,700
of that upskilling.

315
00:13:50,700 --> 00:13:52,560
Organizations.

316
00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:55,740
We're recording this in early August,

317
00:13:55,740 --> 00:13:59,190
it will probably be more around October.

318
00:13:59,190 --> 00:14:01,020
It's hard to know
exactly where the economy

319
00:14:01,020 --> 00:14:02,400
will be at that point,

320
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,281
but right now there's assumption
is that we may be moving

321
00:14:05,281 --> 00:14:08,340
into some form of a recession,

322
00:14:08,340 --> 00:14:11,460
an economic downturn if you will.

323
00:14:11,460 --> 00:14:16,460
You consult with small
and large companies.

324
00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,090
What do you advise them
when things get tight?

325
00:14:21,090 --> 00:14:24,720
I always hear that the first
thing to go is training.

326
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,020
Do you see that in in your work as well?

327
00:14:28,020 --> 00:14:29,880
- A hundred percent.

328
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,190
People throw out training,

329
00:14:32,190 --> 00:14:34,770
they throw out investment in people.

330
00:14:34,770 --> 00:14:36,600
And now think about the following,

331
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,410
what is your biggest cost

332
00:14:40,410 --> 00:14:45,410
and what is your biggest
driver of revenue?

333
00:14:45,450 --> 00:14:48,600
Now it may be if you're
a manufacturing company

334
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,010
and everything is turnkey

335
00:14:50,010 --> 00:14:52,890
and you just need high quality metal

336
00:14:52,890 --> 00:14:54,960
or chemicals or whatever goes in

337
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,580
and you can get anyone to pull the switch

338
00:14:58,445 --> 00:15:00,510
and have your machines
produce things, okay,

339
00:15:00,510 --> 00:15:04,080
that person is just a human
cog in the machine and fine,

340
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,000
you can find another cog.

341
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,690
If you have people adding value
different ways on my teams,

342
00:15:09,690 --> 00:15:11,310
we do software engineering,

343
00:15:11,310 --> 00:15:13,620
it is all about the people.

344
00:15:13,620 --> 00:15:16,530
They are the ones that
are driving our value.

345
00:15:16,530 --> 00:15:17,790
I optimize for them.

346
00:15:17,790 --> 00:15:20,309
In fact, I always say I don't care

347
00:15:20,309 --> 00:15:21,840
if our code necessarily runs less

348
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,660
efficiently 'cause I
can throw more CPUs at,

349
00:15:24,660 --> 00:15:29,310
I'll gladly pay a higher bill
at Amazon for my servers if it

350
00:15:29,310 --> 00:15:31,680
means my people are being
more efficient in the work

351
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,050
they do because they are driving value.

352
00:15:34,050 --> 00:15:36,810
And so it's like making dinner,

353
00:15:36,810 --> 00:15:38,370
what's the most important
part of the dinner?

354
00:15:38,370 --> 00:15:40,170
It's your ingredients.

355
00:15:40,170 --> 00:15:41,970
Poor ingredients, poor dinner,

356
00:15:41,970 --> 00:15:44,220
good ingredients, good dinner.

357
00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:47,580
Your people are probably
one of the key ingredients

358
00:15:47,580 --> 00:15:49,260
to your value,

359
00:15:49,260 --> 00:15:51,840
to the returns you're
giving your shareholders.

360
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,540
That's what you want to invest in.

361
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,060
- Yet again, I'm smiling,
I'm more like a Chester cat,

362
00:15:57,060 --> 00:16:01,470
I'm smiling from ear to ear
because that's obviously

363
00:16:01,470 --> 00:16:05,820
the bias of myself and
the bench builders team.

364
00:16:05,820 --> 00:16:10,170
As we've been kind of
talking about small startups

365
00:16:10,170 --> 00:16:12,270
and Fortune 500's,

366
00:16:12,270 --> 00:16:14,970
I kind of left out what probably accounts

367
00:16:14,970 --> 00:16:17,280
for the vast majority of businesses,

368
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,070
they're not necessary startups
but they've not achieved

369
00:16:20,070 --> 00:16:22,080
Fortune 500 status.

370
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,250
That is probably the company
that I most typically enjoy

371
00:16:26,250 --> 00:16:28,860
working with most, why?

372
00:16:28,860 --> 00:16:30,660
I'm working with the decision makers

373
00:16:31,674 --> 00:16:32,820
and they can see impact,

374
00:16:32,820 --> 00:16:35,700
they can see how what is it
we're working on together

375
00:16:35,700 --> 00:16:37,380
immediately has impact.

376
00:16:37,380 --> 00:16:40,980
And it can be driven
down to the bottom line.

377
00:16:40,980 --> 00:16:44,670
My bias is most businesses fit

378
00:16:44,670 --> 00:16:49,320
in that small to mid-sized category.

379
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,533
But why does that group
get oftentimes overlooked?

380
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,060
- I'm with you in that they
are the most fun company

381
00:16:57,060 --> 00:16:58,830
to work for and why I like it.

382
00:16:58,830 --> 00:17:01,290
Startups early on you
don't have resources.

383
00:17:01,290 --> 00:17:03,210
We don't yet have customers.

384
00:17:03,210 --> 00:17:04,890
Oh a thousand dollars,
that's a lot of money.

385
00:17:04,890 --> 00:17:06,390
Can we spend it?

386
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:07,980
At a big company,

387
00:17:07,980 --> 00:17:10,421
I can spend the thousand dollars,

388
00:17:10,421 --> 00:17:12,480
but I have to fill out
seven forms to do so.

389
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,220
It's a mid sized company
where they can say,

390
00:17:14,220 --> 00:17:15,787
hey, let's invest five,

391
00:17:15,787 --> 00:17:20,149
$10,000 in this and we can see the impact

392
00:17:20,149 --> 00:17:21,600
and I can physically see it,

393
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:22,770
'cause I can walk outta the office

394
00:17:22,770 --> 00:17:24,750
and see what's happening as opposed to,

395
00:17:24,750 --> 00:17:27,810
well that's in a different
office in a different country.

396
00:17:27,810 --> 00:17:32,810
But I think when you look at
for a lot of enterprise sales,

397
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,930
when we look at the returns,
it's really a power law.

398
00:17:36,930 --> 00:17:39,810
If you talk for example
to the cloud providers,

399
00:17:39,810 --> 00:17:42,537
to Amazon and Microsoft and IBM

400
00:17:42,537 --> 00:17:44,163
and we sell cloud services,

401
00:17:45,145 --> 00:17:47,310
it is a tiny handful of their companies

402
00:17:47,310 --> 00:17:50,490
that are driving most
of their cloud revenue.

403
00:17:50,490 --> 00:17:53,700
There's a small number of them
who are giving them literally

404
00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:57,450
millions of dollars a year
and they look at a startup

405
00:17:57,450 --> 00:17:58,387
or an SMB and they say,

406
00:17:58,387 --> 00:18:02,220
"Oh yeah, you're paying us 30,000 a year."

407
00:18:02,220 --> 00:18:05,520
The only reason they care is
because any of those small

408
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,690
companies or SMBs can one
day turn into that large

409
00:18:09,690 --> 00:18:12,270
enterprise and be the key customer.

410
00:18:12,270 --> 00:18:15,300
But really they recognize the
bulk of the revenue for that

411
00:18:15,300 --> 00:18:18,210
comes from a handful of
large enterprise customers.

412
00:18:18,210 --> 00:18:21,315
I suspect that's the same
thing when you look at other

413
00:18:21,315 --> 00:18:23,910
services and products
and that's why we see

414
00:18:23,910 --> 00:18:26,370
a lot of targeting to the enterprise

415
00:18:26,370 --> 00:18:28,920
and SMB is once they've attacked

416
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,230
the enterprise they say well
I guess we need to go down

417
00:18:31,230 --> 00:18:33,780
market if we want to
expand our revenue base.

418
00:18:33,780 --> 00:18:37,710
- Hmm, since I said that
we would talk about it,

419
00:18:37,710 --> 00:18:41,620
we most definitely could
spend the entire podcast

420
00:18:42,715 --> 00:18:43,915
on the career tool book.

421
00:18:45,567 --> 00:18:47,580
And for those who are
not familiar with it,

422
00:18:47,580 --> 00:18:50,310
I love the way you kind of lay it out

423
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:51,900
as one might would expect.

424
00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:53,490
It's very logical.

425
00:18:53,490 --> 00:18:55,410
You're talking about the power of threes,

426
00:18:55,410 --> 00:18:58,080
there's three main sections.

427
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:03,033
Career, leadership management
and interpersonal dynamics.

428
00:19:04,634 --> 00:19:06,810
And even within each of
those you use that same power

429
00:19:06,810 --> 00:19:09,213
of three in terms of the categories.

430
00:19:10,110 --> 00:19:13,650
People who order "The Career Tool" book,

431
00:19:13,650 --> 00:19:15,483
what's prompting them to do so?

432
00:19:17,130 --> 00:19:20,190
- They're recognizing
that any of these skills,

433
00:19:20,190 --> 00:19:22,020
and we've talked about some networking,

434
00:19:22,020 --> 00:19:24,000
negotiating leadership,

435
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,680
if you just get a little bit
better at any of these skills,

436
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,790
you're going to have a massive ROI.

437
00:19:32,790 --> 00:19:34,680
And let me just give a quick illustration.

438
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:39,680
Imagine you're an employee
and you are taking a job offer

439
00:19:39,870 --> 00:19:43,020
that give you $80,000
but instead of taking it,

440
00:19:43,020 --> 00:19:44,550
you've learned to negotiate.

441
00:19:44,550 --> 00:19:46,950
So you negotiate for 81,000.

442
00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:49,850
That's not a big lift
we can imagine doing it.

443
00:19:49,850 --> 00:19:52,740
If you get after five 10
minutes of negotiating

444
00:19:52,740 --> 00:19:55,020
a thousand dollars more and stay

445
00:19:55,020 --> 00:19:57,660
in that job for the rest of your career,

446
00:19:57,660 --> 00:19:59,400
with five or 10 minutes of work.

447
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,560
You just got yourself a thousand dollars

448
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,123
for the next 35 years.

449
00:20:04,002 --> 00:20:05,820
$35,000 in 10 minutes.

450
00:20:05,820 --> 00:20:07,320
That's incredible.

451
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,690
But of course you're not
gonna stay in that job.

452
00:20:09,690 --> 00:20:12,240
You're going to have raises
and promotions and you'll

453
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,760
negotiate for more than
a thousand dollars.

454
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,090
If you get a little bit
better at negotiating,

455
00:20:18,090 --> 00:20:20,220
we're not talking about
being the world's best.

456
00:20:20,220 --> 00:20:22,249
It's a little bit better.

457
00:20:22,249 --> 00:20:24,660
You can add tens of thousands
or even hundreds of thousands

458
00:20:24,660 --> 00:20:27,660
of dollars to your lifetime earnings.

459
00:20:27,660 --> 00:20:31,110
Imagine if everyone on your sales team,

460
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:34,350
on your procurement team got
just a little bit better,

461
00:20:34,350 --> 00:20:36,870
got one or 2% better
in every deal they did.

462
00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:39,390
What would that do to your bottom line?

463
00:20:39,390 --> 00:20:41,280
Now of course we know negotiating is not

464
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:42,810
just about salary and sales.

465
00:20:42,810 --> 00:20:45,000
We negotiate all the time with our peers,

466
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,170
with our coworkers.

467
00:20:46,170 --> 00:20:50,280
If every outcome of your
discussions got one or 2% better,

468
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,470
what would that do to your company?

469
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:53,760
And now I use negotiating

470
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,610
as an example 'cause we can do the math.

471
00:20:56,610 --> 00:21:00,660
But the same is true for
leadership, for communication.

472
00:21:00,660 --> 00:21:02,760
It's not that someone says
here's a thousand dollars more,

473
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,310
but your outcomes get a little bit better.

474
00:21:05,310 --> 00:21:08,640
And so imagine if everyone
in your organization

475
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,130
or even just yourself in your own career

476
00:21:11,130 --> 00:21:13,260
got a little bit better,

477
00:21:13,260 --> 00:21:15,150
the return will be massive.

478
00:21:15,150 --> 00:21:16,380
It's like compound interest.

479
00:21:16,380 --> 00:21:18,390
And so people buy the book as they say,

480
00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:19,920
there's all these skills.

481
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:20,970
I know what they are,

482
00:21:20,970 --> 00:21:23,730
we know networking's important,
I've heard about for years,

483
00:21:23,730 --> 00:21:27,150
but no one's ever taught me how
to do it, how to get better.

484
00:21:27,150 --> 00:21:29,040
So putting in that little investment

485
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,413
has a huge return for the readers.

486
00:21:33,030 --> 00:21:36,120
- Mark, it seems as if
we've had recent guests,

487
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:39,153
this theme keeps coming up and that is,

488
00:21:41,217 --> 00:21:46,110
there's so much horrific that
goes along with the pandemic,

489
00:21:46,110 --> 00:21:48,510
but there has been some
things that you step back

490
00:21:48,510 --> 00:21:50,881
and you look at it and what has it done.

491
00:21:50,881 --> 00:21:55,203
And it seems as if it's given
many people the opportunity

492
00:21:55,203 --> 00:22:00,203
to to reflect, to kind of assess
and begin making decisions.

493
00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:03,846
It's been commonly referred
to as the mass resignation

494
00:22:03,846 --> 00:22:06,120
by which people just kind of
say, look, I'm outta here,

495
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:07,800
I wanna move beyond it.

496
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,160
And that is if we have
listeners who are stepping back

497
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:12,630
and saying, you know what?

498
00:22:12,630 --> 00:22:16,523
I may not have 25 years
to compound that $1,000

499
00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:20,073
that I got in more salary,

500
00:22:21,314 --> 00:22:26,130
but I want to use the time I
have left most effectively.

501
00:22:26,130 --> 00:22:29,790
And it could very well be at
different points in your career

502
00:22:29,790 --> 00:22:32,190
or at different levels
of the organization.

503
00:22:32,190 --> 00:22:35,700
How could someone who is say mid-career

504
00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:37,323
benefit by your book.

505
00:22:38,340 --> 00:22:41,760
- These skills by the
way apply at any stage

506
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,940
if you're not 30, but 55 even still,

507
00:22:44,940 --> 00:22:46,680
gain that a thousand dollars more gives

508
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,610
you more compounding works
just not for as long.

509
00:22:50,610 --> 00:22:52,680
Now the same thing goes
for our career plans.

510
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:57,090
It's great if you are 25 and
really understand where you

511
00:22:57,090 --> 00:23:00,060
wanna go and create the plan
to get there instead of maybe

512
00:23:00,060 --> 00:23:01,800
bouncing around and wasting time.

513
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,140
But even if you are 50 or 55

514
00:23:04,140 --> 00:23:07,110
and certainly in your
thirties and forties,

515
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:09,638
figuring out where you want to go

516
00:23:09,638 --> 00:23:11,460
and creating a plan to get there.

517
00:23:11,460 --> 00:23:14,820
'Cause we all know at work,
anytime we have a goal,

518
00:23:14,820 --> 00:23:16,250
we have this big project we have to do

519
00:23:16,250 --> 00:23:18,180
in the next two years.

520
00:23:18,180 --> 00:23:20,670
We actually create a
plan and see how we do

521
00:23:20,670 --> 00:23:22,080
against the plan and adjust.

522
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,090
We don't just cross our fingers and hope,

523
00:23:24,090 --> 00:23:26,010
but with our careers we do that.

524
00:23:26,010 --> 00:23:28,320
Say, well I hope to get that
promotion in a few years.

525
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:29,730
I hope to get to that level.

526
00:23:29,730 --> 00:23:33,063
I'm not gonna create a
plan, that doesn't work.

527
00:23:34,083 --> 00:23:35,580
So we want to apply some
of the same techniques

528
00:23:35,580 --> 00:23:37,980
and to your point, people
are finally stepping back

529
00:23:37,980 --> 00:23:40,440
and saying, what is it I want?

530
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:41,520
Now here's the key thing,

531
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,730
there's a bunch of questions
that I give people to start

532
00:23:44,730 --> 00:23:46,590
thinking about this and
they're free on the website,

533
00:23:46,590 --> 00:23:49,290
which will give you a
little later in the show.

534
00:23:49,290 --> 00:23:52,050
It's not just about your job.

535
00:23:52,050 --> 00:23:54,000
Yes, ask questions like how many hours

536
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,620
do I wanna be in the office?

537
00:23:55,620 --> 00:23:59,010
Do I wanna manage people or
be an individual contributor?

538
00:23:59,010 --> 00:24:03,150
Ask those questions, but
also ask about your life.

539
00:24:03,150 --> 00:24:04,610
How much flexibility do you want?

540
00:24:04,610 --> 00:24:07,740
Do you wanna be able to
take off in the afternoon

541
00:24:07,740 --> 00:24:09,540
to go see your child's play in school?

542
00:24:09,540 --> 00:24:13,320
Which I was fortunate that
my dad was able to do that.

543
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:14,430
Those things matter too.

544
00:24:14,430 --> 00:24:19,140
So ask questions about your
life and then make sure your job

545
00:24:19,140 --> 00:24:22,020
and career fit into the life that you want

546
00:24:22,020 --> 00:24:24,120
instead of trying to fit your life

547
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:25,570
around the job that you have.

548
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:30,210
- I hear very often that people feel stuck

549
00:24:30,210 --> 00:24:32,550
from a career standpoint.

550
00:24:32,550 --> 00:24:35,310
In my conversations with friends,

551
00:24:35,310 --> 00:24:38,040
I hear that as a kind of recurring theme.

552
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,510
So I could see if a person feels
somewhat stuck career wise,

553
00:24:42,510 --> 00:24:47,040
how the career tool book
could be helpful to them.

554
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:52,040
Mark, as you kind of look back
on your experiences thus far,

555
00:24:52,530 --> 00:24:55,830
working with individuals,
working with teams,

556
00:24:55,830 --> 00:24:59,040
working with companies
of all different sizes,

557
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,930
working in academia,

558
00:25:00,930 --> 00:25:05,850
helping those at MIT get
off to a good strong start

559
00:25:05,850 --> 00:25:09,120
with the career success accelerator.

560
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:12,360
As you kind of reflect on
those experiences thus far,

561
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:14,926
can you think of an example
by which either you or someone

562
00:25:14,926 --> 00:25:18,480
that you're working with got stuck?

563
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,573
And if so, what did it
take to get unstuck?

564
00:25:22,890 --> 00:25:26,490
- I have seen so many people
get stuck in their careers.

565
00:25:26,490 --> 00:25:29,310
In fact, the opening few lines of my book

566
00:25:29,310 --> 00:25:32,590
are examples of people I saw I worked with

567
00:25:33,668 --> 00:25:34,890
who wanted to get somewhere.

568
00:25:34,890 --> 00:25:38,850
Someone who says I wanna be
a director, but that's it.

569
00:25:38,850 --> 00:25:39,780
They wanna be a director

570
00:25:39,780 --> 00:25:42,195
and they don't know how to get there.

571
00:25:42,195 --> 00:25:43,680
And for years their career languishes.

572
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,790
I've seen some people who get
sidelined into a certain type

573
00:25:47,790 --> 00:25:49,470
of project or industry or role,

574
00:25:49,470 --> 00:25:50,730
it's not really where they wanna be.

575
00:25:50,730 --> 00:25:52,380
But each step the boss says,

576
00:25:52,380 --> 00:25:53,790
well look, we just need you on this

577
00:25:53,790 --> 00:25:56,880
for another year or really
need you on this project.

578
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,620
And then they look back eight years later

579
00:25:58,620 --> 00:26:01,380
and they say, wow, where did that time go?

580
00:26:01,380 --> 00:26:04,650
And it's because people don't
have that proactive plan.

581
00:26:04,650 --> 00:26:06,510
The analogy I use in the book,

582
00:26:06,510 --> 00:26:09,090
imagine you're sitting in a small boat

583
00:26:09,090 --> 00:26:10,680
in the middle of the ocean,

584
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,370
there are currents moving you
around and if you do nothing,

585
00:26:14,370 --> 00:26:17,370
the currents are going
to direct you somewhere.

586
00:26:17,370 --> 00:26:20,940
It may be where you want
to end up, it may not be.

587
00:26:20,940 --> 00:26:23,477
So your best bet for getting

588
00:26:23,477 --> 00:26:25,830
where you want to go is to
know where you want to go

589
00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:28,140
and then proactively create a plan.

590
00:26:28,140 --> 00:26:29,820
Now that might be rolling,

591
00:26:29,820 --> 00:26:32,550
growing or sailing or
turning on the engine.

592
00:26:32,550 --> 00:26:35,310
And sometimes those currents will help you

593
00:26:35,310 --> 00:26:36,540
and they'll take you there faster.

594
00:26:36,540 --> 00:26:38,850
Sometimes they're gonna work against you.

595
00:26:38,850 --> 00:26:41,440
And what happens in
life is we have currents

596
00:26:42,641 --> 00:26:44,160
and it could be the boss who's blocking

597
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,860
our promotion or trying
to help us get promoted.

598
00:26:46,860 --> 00:26:49,510
It could be your division
just got shut down

599
00:26:50,422 --> 00:26:51,255
or there's a global pandemic

600
00:26:51,255 --> 00:26:53,400
that threw everything into chaos.

601
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,340
And so that project that
was supposed to happen 2020

602
00:26:56,340 --> 00:26:57,693
completely got shelved.

603
00:26:58,798 --> 00:26:59,970
You never know what can happen,

604
00:26:59,970 --> 00:27:02,400
but you can't just sit back

605
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,020
and wait for the currents
to take you there.

606
00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:07,590
You have to have a plan and
you have to be proactive.

607
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:10,230
And it begins if you don't
know where you want to go,

608
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:13,380
it begins by exploring and
talking to people to understand

609
00:27:13,380 --> 00:27:16,380
where you would be happier
than where you are now.

610
00:27:16,380 --> 00:27:18,430
And then creating that plan to get there.

611
00:27:19,710 --> 00:27:21,860
- What I love about
what you just described

612
00:27:22,965 --> 00:27:25,920
is the context was individual context

613
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,800
and that is recognizing the currents.

614
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:29,940
They're gonna take you somewhere,

615
00:27:29,940 --> 00:27:32,220
you just gotta decide what
you're gonna do about it.

616
00:27:32,220 --> 00:27:36,480
I can see how you, in
working with your clients,

617
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,680
apply the same thing when
it comes to their planning.

618
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,960
And that is don't leave it to chance.

619
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,223
Be intentional.

620
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:46,470
- That's exactly right.

621
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:48,150
We think about our project plans,

622
00:27:48,150 --> 00:27:50,640
we don't just say, well
I think if we do this,

623
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,080
it's going to work.

624
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,100
We say, wait a second,

625
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:56,550
what if this is twice as
hard as we think it is?

626
00:27:56,550 --> 00:27:59,610
What if that vendor who's
promised to deliver by the 30th,

627
00:27:59,610 --> 00:28:00,780
what happens if they don't?

628
00:28:00,780 --> 00:28:02,430
Do we have a backup plan?

629
00:28:02,430 --> 00:28:03,750
And you'll think about these things

630
00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:07,110
and then you'll adjust when things happen.

631
00:28:07,110 --> 00:28:09,573
The same thing applies
to our career plans.

632
00:28:12,270 --> 00:28:15,120
- As you well know, this is
not a scripted conversation,

633
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:20,120
but I'm kind of looking at
your degrees and reflecting on

634
00:28:20,220 --> 00:28:24,150
what you are doing now
and how you help clients?

635
00:28:24,150 --> 00:28:27,780
What do those of those degrees
do you find yourself tapping

636
00:28:27,780 --> 00:28:29,193
into most often?

637
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:32,703
- No question, the physics degree.

638
00:28:33,774 --> 00:28:35,036
- Hmm.

639
00:28:35,036 --> 00:28:35,910
- Even though I work in software,

640
00:28:35,910 --> 00:28:38,190
so you think the electrical
engineering and pure science

641
00:28:38,190 --> 00:28:41,820
degrees are relevant and
sure, I use some of that.

642
00:28:41,820 --> 00:28:44,580
But what physics taught me

643
00:28:44,580 --> 00:28:48,540
is how to frame and solve problems.

644
00:28:48,540 --> 00:28:50,670
And really when it comes down to it,

645
00:28:50,670 --> 00:28:53,490
we think of framing and solving problems

646
00:28:53,490 --> 00:28:55,260
within our discipline.

647
00:28:55,260 --> 00:28:58,620
Certainly within engineering,
I need to do this.

648
00:28:58,620 --> 00:29:02,190
How do I do it using the
rules and constraints I have.

649
00:29:02,190 --> 00:29:03,270
If you're in finance,

650
00:29:03,270 --> 00:29:05,550
well we need to get
this type of cash flow,

651
00:29:05,550 --> 00:29:07,290
how do we do that?

652
00:29:07,290 --> 00:29:10,830
But there are a bunch of
problems that are a lot harder,

653
00:29:10,830 --> 00:29:14,490
which is I need to get my team to do this,

654
00:29:14,490 --> 00:29:19,490
to behave a certain way, to
engage, to deliver this work.

655
00:29:19,890 --> 00:29:22,470
And boy, they're not
working well together,

656
00:29:22,470 --> 00:29:25,080
they're fighting, there's
poor communications.

657
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,970
So that's the goal.

658
00:29:26,970 --> 00:29:29,721
But now I have to frame the
problem the right way to apply

659
00:29:29,721 --> 00:29:31,710
the right approaches.

660
00:29:31,710 --> 00:29:32,700
So just like in physics,

661
00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:34,380
we say how do we model it?

662
00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:37,380
And then what are the
formulas we use to solve it?

663
00:29:37,380 --> 00:29:38,340
The same thing's through here,

664
00:29:38,340 --> 00:29:42,189
but it's not as easy to recognize
how to define the problem

665
00:29:42,189 --> 00:29:43,740
and which approach.

666
00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:47,760
One thing I love about the
people side is any rule,

667
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,140
there's an exception somewhere,

668
00:29:49,140 --> 00:29:50,400
you can always come up with an example

669
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,890
where that's not the right thing to do.

670
00:29:52,890 --> 00:29:54,780
And so it's a lot more subtle

671
00:29:54,780 --> 00:29:56,530
and I think a lot more challenging.

672
00:29:57,870 --> 00:29:59,340
- I couldn't agree with you more.

673
00:29:59,340 --> 00:30:03,393
And that is when I was working
in a corporate HR standpoint,

674
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:05,760
just when you think you've seen it all,

675
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,660
something else happens

676
00:30:09,422 --> 00:30:11,220
and people are are not as predictable

677
00:30:11,220 --> 00:30:13,650
as one might would think.

678
00:30:13,650 --> 00:30:15,540
I'm really intrigued by your response

679
00:30:15,540 --> 00:30:18,690
and that is you tap into
your physics background.

680
00:30:18,690 --> 00:30:23,520
I'm certain listening to
you and how easy you are in

681
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,613
describing not technical matters,

682
00:30:27,730 --> 00:30:29,010
but these non-technical matters.

683
00:30:29,010 --> 00:30:32,610
Actually those matters that
can be much more derailing.

684
00:30:32,610 --> 00:30:34,440
You're talking about communication,

685
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:35,940
you're talking about teamwork,

686
00:30:36,829 --> 00:30:40,143
you're talking about
having a plan and purpose.

687
00:30:41,310 --> 00:30:46,310
You have a great ability
just to kinda take that

688
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,673
and just put it in a a way
that's very easy to understand.

689
00:30:52,230 --> 00:30:54,420
Mark, we've talked about
a pretty wide variety

690
00:30:54,420 --> 00:30:56,280
of things in this conversation.

691
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,070
As you kinda look back
on what we've discussed,

692
00:30:59,070 --> 00:31:01,140
what do you wanna make sure our viewers

693
00:31:01,140 --> 00:31:03,663
and listeners have as takeaways?

694
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:06,900
- I'd say a few different things.

695
00:31:06,900 --> 00:31:10,470
One of the most common ways
organizations get stuck

696
00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:13,050
is what's been working for them to date

697
00:31:13,050 --> 00:31:15,510
no longer works in the new environment

698
00:31:15,510 --> 00:31:17,157
which they're operating in.

699
00:31:17,157 --> 00:31:19,320
It might be because they're
scaling up or the industry

700
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,540
has changed or something
about their organization.

701
00:31:21,540 --> 00:31:23,882
They went from all sitting together

702
00:31:23,882 --> 00:31:25,260
to now being distributed.

703
00:31:25,260 --> 00:31:28,410
So recognize that when
there are external changes,

704
00:31:28,410 --> 00:31:31,860
you might need to review
your operating practices

705
00:31:31,860 --> 00:31:34,620
and adjust to the needs you have today.

706
00:31:34,620 --> 00:31:35,920
Not what worked yesterday.

707
00:31:36,780 --> 00:31:38,823
When it comes to upskilling,

708
00:31:40,044 --> 00:31:43,770
small improvements in these
skills can have a huge return.

709
00:31:43,770 --> 00:31:44,970
Don't get daunted, don't say,

710
00:31:44,970 --> 00:31:47,160
well, never gonna be a great leader.

711
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:47,993
That's okay.

712
00:31:47,993 --> 00:31:50,280
If you're just a slightly
better leader tomorrow than you

713
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,710
are today you will have a huge benefit.

714
00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:55,620
And if you can do this for
your whole organization,

715
00:31:55,620 --> 00:31:59,880
the return is massive and there
are very easy no cost ways

716
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:02,430
to do this within your organization.

717
00:32:02,430 --> 00:32:05,637
And then when it comes to the
third piece to thinking about

718
00:32:05,637 --> 00:32:08,190
some of the bigger challenges,

719
00:32:08,190 --> 00:32:11,310
really, if you can frame
the problem correctly,

720
00:32:11,310 --> 00:32:12,630
you're halfway there to solving,

721
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:15,930
So many people are looking
at the wrong problem,

722
00:32:15,930 --> 00:32:17,700
they're looking at the wrong way.

723
00:32:17,700 --> 00:32:19,110
And if you look at the
problem the wrong way,

724
00:32:19,110 --> 00:32:22,020
you pick up a bunch of
incorrect solutions.

725
00:32:22,020 --> 00:32:24,180
If you think that screw is a nail,

726
00:32:24,180 --> 00:32:25,950
you're gonna start hammering it.

727
00:32:25,950 --> 00:32:27,660
If you recognize it as a screw,

728
00:32:27,660 --> 00:32:28,680
you're gonna get the right tool,

729
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,170
the screwdriver and it's so much easier.

730
00:32:31,170 --> 00:32:33,330
So knowing how to identify

731
00:32:33,330 --> 00:32:35,163
and frame the problem is really key.

732
00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:39,060
- Mark, I'm confident that folks listening

733
00:32:39,060 --> 00:32:41,370
to this will want to learn more.

734
00:32:41,370 --> 00:32:44,100
What's the best way for
people to learn more

735
00:32:44,100 --> 00:32:46,443
about you and what is it you do?

736
00:32:47,340 --> 00:32:51,210
- You can go to my website,
the career toolkitbook.com.

737
00:32:51,210 --> 00:32:53,490
Now that's where you're gonna
learn about the book part

738
00:32:53,490 --> 00:32:54,930
of it and the upskilling.

739
00:32:54,930 --> 00:32:57,870
If you want the other side of me,

740
00:32:57,870 --> 00:33:00,600
the consultant side, you
can look at my LinkedIn,

741
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,340
which is linked from my website.

742
00:33:02,340 --> 00:33:04,800
So if you go to the careertoolkitbook.com,

743
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,240
you can see where to buy the book.

744
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:07,440
You can get in touch with me.

745
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,787
You can follow me on social media.

746
00:33:09,787 --> 00:33:11,940
Or from the contact page,
go to my LinkedIn page.

747
00:33:11,940 --> 00:33:15,990
You can find other free
resources throughout my website.

748
00:33:15,990 --> 00:33:18,090
Other than the book, I give
everything away for free.

749
00:33:18,090 --> 00:33:19,860
There's a free companion app,

750
00:33:19,860 --> 00:33:21,600
where you don't even have to buy the book,

751
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,550
that has a lot of the
key points from the book.

752
00:33:23,550 --> 00:33:26,480
I put out new content every
week and there's a resources

753
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,100
page with a bunch of free downloads,

754
00:33:29,100 --> 00:33:31,800
including the career plan
questions we talked about,

755
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,830
including questions to ask
during the interview process,

756
00:33:34,830 --> 00:33:36,330
how to think about things both

757
00:33:36,330 --> 00:33:38,940
as a hiring manager and as a candidate.

758
00:33:38,940 --> 00:33:41,220
The very first download is a free guide

759
00:33:41,220 --> 00:33:43,530
for how to create an upskilling program

760
00:33:43,530 --> 00:33:44,850
across your organization,

761
00:33:44,850 --> 00:33:46,380
completely free.

762
00:33:46,380 --> 00:33:47,580
You don't have to buy anything.

763
00:33:47,580 --> 00:33:48,413
You can just download it,

764
00:33:48,413 --> 00:33:50,610
and get it by asking for your email.

765
00:33:50,610 --> 00:33:53,160
Take it and improve
your whole organization.

766
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,183
So all of this is available
at thecareertoolkit.com.

767
00:33:58,500 --> 00:34:00,330
- I've spent time on that website.

768
00:34:00,330 --> 00:34:02,400
It's an excellent website.

769
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:07,400
It's easy to navigate and the
resources that are available

770
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:10,713
for download is very, very impressive,

771
00:34:11,929 --> 00:34:13,230
as you are as well.

772
00:34:13,230 --> 00:34:17,010
Mark, thank you for
spending time with me today.

773
00:34:17,010 --> 00:34:18,243
I really appreciate it.

774
00:34:19,260 --> 00:34:21,720
- Thanks for having me on the show.

775
00:34:21,720 --> 00:34:24,630
- I also wanna thank our
listeners for joining us today.

776
00:34:24,630 --> 00:34:27,780
We upload the latest
episode every Thursday

777
00:34:27,780 --> 00:34:31,740
to all the major platforms,
including Apple and Spotify.

778
00:34:31,740 --> 00:34:33,934
So if you've enjoyed
this episode with Mark,

779
00:34:33,934 --> 00:34:36,090
please subscribe.

780
00:34:36,090 --> 00:34:37,860
I've got a question for our listeners.

781
00:34:37,860 --> 00:34:40,383
Are you trying to grow your
business and you wanna make sure

782
00:34:40,383 --> 00:34:43,410
that you've got the right
people, process and planning

783
00:34:43,410 --> 00:34:46,230
systems in place to grow smoothly?

784
00:34:46,230 --> 00:34:48,810
If yes, let's talk.

785
00:34:48,810 --> 00:34:51,390
Head to unstuck.show to schedule

786
00:34:51,390 --> 00:34:54,210
a quick non-sales call.

787
00:34:54,210 --> 00:34:57,330
We'll talk about your growth
goals and explore practical

788
00:34:57,330 --> 00:35:01,500
steps that you can take
immediately to grow your business.

789
00:35:01,500 --> 00:35:03,660
So I wanna thank you for joining us

790
00:35:03,660 --> 00:35:05,640
and I hope you have picked up on some tips

791
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,130
from Mark that will help you get

792
00:35:08,130 --> 00:35:11,070
unstuck and on target.

793
00:35:11,070 --> 00:35:12,003
Until next time.

794
00:35:12,897 --> 00:35:15,480
(upbeat music)

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