Episode 94: Easing Your Employees’ #1 Stress with Gordon Stein

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(upbeat music)

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- Welcome back to the "Get
Unstuck and On Target" podcast.

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I'm Mike O'Neill with Bench Builders,

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and we help companies,
especially manufacturers,

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improve their people
process and planning systems

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so they can scale smarter and faster.

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Joining me from Cleveland,
Ohio, is Gordon Stein.

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Gordon is a keynote speaker, a blogger,

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a personal finance expert,

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and he's the author of
"Cash Flow Cookbook,"

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A $2 million Towards Financial
Freedom in 60 Easy Recipes.

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I've got that book here, we're
gonna be referring to it.

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Welcome Gordon.

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- Oh, pleasure to be here.

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Thank you so much, Mike.

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- Gordon, we had an
opportunity prior to scheduling

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this recording date to talk
about a wide variety of things

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that you could speak on.

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And one thing that really caught
my attention, as you know,

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I come out of an HR background,

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and my business works
closely with HR departments,

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and I know that these HR
departments in today's times

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have been so concerned
about employee wellness

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and they're trying so
many different things.

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But when you point out
that financial wellness

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is something that is often overlooked

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and you pointed out that financial issues

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can be the number one
stressor for employees,

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it has struck me as a perfect topic for us

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to have a conversation on.

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Does that work for you?

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- That does for sure.

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I'm very passionate about it.

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We got a lot of help that employees need.

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- Now I made reference to your book,

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better described as a cookbook.

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I'm gonna kind of hold up, so
it's there, it's excellent.

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We're gonna refer to that
here in a little bit,

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but I like to kind of lift
a little bit of a quote

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from your website and it reads,

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"Money should bring joy to your life.

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Money should free you for today's passions

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and tomorrow's dreams.

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For too many people, money limits them

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and brings stress and anxiety.

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It's time to get outta debt
and build with wealth."

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And this cookbook, and I love the concept,

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is designed to do that.

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So where would you like to start?

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- Well, I mean let's
start with the employees.

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I think they're the most important people

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in this whole discussion.

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And you know, let's back
up before the 9% inflation.

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Let's back up before the
recent stock market plunged

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and the lowering of
people's values of their IRS

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and their 401ks.

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Let's go back to some
information of where we were at,

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just a few months ago.

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And at that point, you know,

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we hit a record for car loan duration.

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Back in my day you had
a 36 month car loan,

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you had a 48 month car loan.

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Average American car
loan now is 72 months.

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- Goodness.

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- Most popular new car loans 96 months.

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- Wow.

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- If you talk about
from an HR perspective,

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many of our listeners here
will have employee assistance

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programs they're funding,

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fully 50% of the calls into EAPs

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are about people's number one
stress, that's their money.

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So every aspect of this we look at,

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we talk about living paycheck to paycheck,

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the stat a few months ago is
65% of Americans with children

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are living paycheck to paycheck.

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You know, Center for Financial
Innovation tells us that 85%

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of employees are so
stress about their money,

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it actually impacts them in the workplace.

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So we've got this looming crisis

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and now everything has fallen
apart much, much further.

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People are pushing out their retirement,

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they're more stressed about
money than ever before.

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Their mortgage rates may
have jumped from, you know,

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2 1/2-3% to 4 1/2-5%.

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And what that means from a
monthly payment perspective

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is massive.

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So, you know, your employees
are fighting this quiet war

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and they really need help, you know.

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Meanwhile, if I look at
the wellness industry,

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here in the US that's an $8
billion industry, it's massive.

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Just about every company
has some sort of a wellness

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initiative on the go.

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And when you look at them,

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we're fighting some really
tough battles there,

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trying to get people to change their diet.

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Diets typically fail
after a couple months.

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Trying to get people to start exercising.

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Those gym memberships
usually have a duration

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of two or three months as well.

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But the biggest area,
which is people's stress

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and principally it's
coming from their finances,

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that's one that we can change,

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and we can do it pretty easily.

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I think it needs to be a key part

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of every organization's wellness program.

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- You know, Gordon, we've
not discussed this prior,

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but I just find it kind of intriguing

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that financial stress is so widespread.

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What is it?

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Are we not instilling financial awareness

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as we raise our children
or what's happening?

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Why is that happening in your opinion?

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- Like there's two big parts to it.

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One you just hit the nail
on the head, you know.

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Where are children gonna get
help with their finances?

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Well, one option would
be from their parents,

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but we've already described parents,

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they're in terrible financial state.

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They don't have much to give,

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and often what they give isn't good.

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And in many cases
they're instilling values

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that really aren't
helpful to the children.

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It's been missing from school
curriculums, grade school,

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secondary school, higher education,

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nothing about financial wellness.

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And that really takes us
to, you know, the employer.

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So people first of all
have had no preparation,

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no training on this whatsoever, right?

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So that's problem number one.

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Problem number two is that,
marketers continue to get more

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and more sophisticated.

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So having been one at
large technology companies,

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it's no accident that you're
desperate to get yourself

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a new iPhone and you can't wait to go out

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and get that new outfit that you want,

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because marketers hold all the cards.

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You know, they're doing
functional MRI studies

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to understand what catch phrases

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are gonna wanna make us buy.

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They do extensive e-testing
on commercials and videos

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to figure out what's
gonna move the consumer.

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There's store trackers
as we move around a store

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to track our path and
those paths are modified

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to get us to buy more.

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You know, on your way out
of large department stores,

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in many cases they'll have a
whole corral that has junk food

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and chips and snacks and
sodas before you can even get

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to the cash register.

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But as humans, we've got
millions of years of genetics

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that haven't adapted.

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You know, we're running the same way.

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So the marketers hold all the playbooks.

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We've not gotten any sharpers
consumers, it's a losing war.

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And so people are really
stuck, so they feel this need

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and this demand and they
tend to spend right up

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to this point on their paycheck,

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and in many cases they're
spending up here somewhere.

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We need to help them.

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- I know you as an author,
I know you as a speaker.

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In what ways do you help
employers with this?

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- Well, what I do is
I speak professionally

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and I speak full time.

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And a lot of those talks are to employees

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helping them with their
financial wellness.

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And it's surprisingly simple.

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Often I title my keynote zero
to 1 million in 60 Minutes,

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which is an audacious promise
to show CUPE's employees

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how to add a million dollars
of wealth in a 60 minute talk

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and I deliver it.

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And it's really that simple.

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So when I wrote "Cashflow Cookbook"

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and I just rewrote the US edition,

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just launched it very recently.

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And in the book I talk
about how to add wealth

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and how to free up cash
flow with minimal effort

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and minimal sacrifice.

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So traditional thinking says,

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hey, you have to give up things,

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you have to do careful budgeting,

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you have to save 10% on what you earn.

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And those things are true,

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but I don't know what could
possibly be a bigger downer

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for people.

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Nobody wants to give up
things that they love.

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And if you say to your spouse,

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hey, this weekend let's
set aside the weekend

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and do some careful detailed budgeting,

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you're gonna need Mary Child.

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(both laughing)

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So, you know, I think we can
look at it much differently.

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And in "Cashflow Cookbook,"

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the whole premise of the book was,

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I show people how to free
up up to $13,000 monthly.

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Reducing their expenses
by up to $13,000 monthly,

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and typically doing it with minimal effort

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and minimal sacrifice.

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And if we can do that for people,

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we can lower this financial spend level

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now we free up some
money for debt repayment,

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we free up some money for
incremental investment,

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get people to, and get
your employees to a place

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of financial freedom.

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And when we do that,

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they can start now to climb
up the Maslow's hierarchy.

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They can do meaningful
work at their companies.

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They can get reengaged,
reengage with their families,

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reengage with their
friends, with their hobbies,

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with their work, and with their passion.

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And I think we owe that to our employees.

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So that's how I like to help.

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- I can see that come
through loud and clear.

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What also kind of drew
me to this conversation

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is on the surface, it's simple,

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and that is you're budgeting
people's eyes glaze over,

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sacrificing.

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People don't want to sacrifice.

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And what you offer in your
book and in your talks

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are just some real practical ways.

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You mentioned that you have
a talk that lasts 60 minutes

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and you promised that you
could put a million dollars.

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Why don't we just take a few minutes.

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Could you give us kind of the highlights

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of what that might would sound like,

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so people get an idea of
kind of where this would go?

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- Yeah, so what I do, talks,

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I talk for a little bit about the state

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of personal finances,
which is really quite bad.

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And that's a comfort to people
'cause they start to see,

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geez, you know, it really is that,

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all my neighbors are in the same boat.

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You know, there's no need
to feel guilty or anxious

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about your finances.

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All financial situations
can be drastically improved.

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And I believe that a great place to start,

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there's lots of bad cooking
puns in "Cashflow Cookbook,"

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So be warned.

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So I talk about boiling a bill,

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and every bill that we have,

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people typically have about a dozen or so,

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recurring monthly bills.

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There's all the other things
that we spend money on.

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I took two years and researched
the very best personal

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finance hacks.

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So easy ways to free up cash
without giving anything up.

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Now let me stress, Mike,

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that these are things that
you or I would do, okay?

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I'm not saying make your
own cleaning products.

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I don't want anyone driving
around to six grocery stores

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to save on their vegetables
or whatever the case would be.

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There's no coupon clipping.

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It's just doing things much smarter.

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And when we do that, we free up cash,

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and then right away we
want to take that cash flow

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and do something productive with it.

255
00:11:15,900 --> 00:11:20,040
Increase our contributions
to our 401k or our Roth IRA,

256
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:21,960
let's get some debt paid down.

257
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,130
And when we start to do that,

258
00:11:23,130 --> 00:11:25,440
these habits start to multiply.

259
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,870
People start to see the
impact on their wealth.

260
00:11:27,870 --> 00:11:31,470
You see that wealth growing
and that gives them options,

261
00:11:31,470 --> 00:11:33,600
that gives them choices.

262
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,660
Sometimes people say, well I
don't really care about money,

263
00:11:36,660 --> 00:11:39,030
I don't want to buy a Ferrari.

264
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:40,920
I don't think they can buy a Ferrari

265
00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:41,880
if they wanna buy a Ferrari,

266
00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,880
but hey, maybe they want to
give more money to their church

267
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,110
or to a charity.

268
00:11:46,110 --> 00:11:48,177
Maybe they want to take a
family sabbatical for a year

269
00:11:48,177 --> 00:11:50,910
and really get to know
each other as a family.

270
00:11:50,910 --> 00:11:52,800
Maybe they want to retire early,

271
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,720
they wanna work in a family business

272
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,880
that might pay less
than their current job,

273
00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:58,860
but they're more passionate about it.

274
00:11:58,860 --> 00:12:01,979
So I want everyone to get that much freer.

275
00:12:01,979 --> 00:12:03,120
But to your point,

276
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,360
let's talk a bit about
some simple examples.

277
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:07,810
Please let me start with one,

278
00:12:08,730 --> 00:12:11,581
the personal example and I
just kind of stumbled into it.

279
00:12:11,581 --> 00:12:13,620
This is the kind of thing
that's in "Cashflow Cookbook."

280
00:12:13,620 --> 00:12:17,490
So recently I got prescribed
a cholesterol drug,

281
00:12:17,490 --> 00:12:19,380
pretty common, Crestor.

282
00:12:19,380 --> 00:12:22,200
Probably the most popular drug in America,

283
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,150
to lower my cholesterol levels.

284
00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:26,400
And you know, when we get
a prescription in hand

285
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,061
from our doctor, we're
thinking about one thing,

286
00:12:29,061 --> 00:12:31,289
where do I go to get this filled?

287
00:12:31,289 --> 00:12:36,060
Inevitably there's a drug store
probably in the ground floor

288
00:12:36,060 --> 00:12:38,325
of your doctor's office
or really close by,

289
00:12:38,325 --> 00:12:40,500
they're not stupid.

290
00:12:40,500 --> 00:12:43,380
So we head in there with
our prescription as I did.

291
00:12:43,380 --> 00:12:45,780
So, you know, I was waiting
for it to get filled

292
00:12:45,780 --> 00:12:48,750
and then I went to pick
it up and you know,

293
00:12:48,750 --> 00:12:50,021
how much is it?

294
00:12:50,021 --> 00:12:51,270
$107 a month?

295
00:12:51,270 --> 00:12:52,758
- Hmm.

296
00:12:52,758 --> 00:12:53,591
- Now that's not a massive number,

297
00:12:53,591 --> 00:12:55,980
but this is a drug that I
apparently I need to take

298
00:12:55,980 --> 00:12:56,940
for the rest of my life.

299
00:12:56,940 --> 00:13:01,940
So $107 over the next 30 or
40 years is pretty material.

300
00:13:02,325 --> 00:13:04,200
So I just said to the pharmacist,

301
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,020
said this is a little pricey, 107.

302
00:13:07,020 --> 00:13:09,459
And she said, I want to
get one of our drug cards

303
00:13:09,459 --> 00:13:13,200
because then the price
drops to $63 a month.

304
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,650
I'm thinking myself, we're
going from 107 to 63,

305
00:13:16,650 --> 00:13:17,880
pretty dramatic.

306
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,500
How much is the drug card?

307
00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:21,870
It's $20 a year.

308
00:13:21,870 --> 00:13:22,710
So quick math,

309
00:13:22,710 --> 00:13:26,330
I'm gonna save $500 with a $20 drug card,

310
00:13:26,330 --> 00:13:27,510
is a bit of a no brainer.

311
00:13:27,510 --> 00:13:29,310
So I said, yeah, sign me up.

312
00:13:29,310 --> 00:13:32,280
Quite pleased with myself,
right quick conversation,

313
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,130
read up $480 a year.

314
00:13:35,130 --> 00:13:36,990
I was hop for dinner
with my brother-in-law

315
00:13:36,990 --> 00:13:39,600
and I was telling him the
story and I was, you know,

316
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,420
kind of pleased with myself, you know,

317
00:13:42,420 --> 00:13:43,260
and he said, no, no, no.

318
00:13:43,260 --> 00:13:45,450
He says you want to go to
one of the online pharmacies,

319
00:13:45,450 --> 00:13:47,130
is much cheaper.

320
00:13:47,130 --> 00:13:49,620
Gave me the name of the one he was using.

321
00:13:49,620 --> 00:13:53,340
So I went on to this site,
typed it in my prescription,

322
00:13:53,340 --> 00:13:55,770
and the dosage and everything.

323
00:13:55,770 --> 00:13:57,992
Turns out I get it for $13 a month

324
00:13:57,992 --> 00:14:01,170
by joining this online pharmacy.

325
00:14:01,170 --> 00:14:05,190
So I thought you said if we've
gone from 107 to 63 to 13

326
00:14:05,190 --> 00:14:07,890
as a business person,
we're probably not done.

327
00:14:07,890 --> 00:14:10,470
So did a little bit more online shopping.

328
00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:15,470
I now get the pills delivered
to my house for $7 a month.

329
00:14:15,660 --> 00:14:16,629
- Good job.

330
00:14:16,629 --> 00:14:17,462
- So how long did all this take?

331
00:14:17,462 --> 00:14:18,510
About 15 minutes.

332
00:14:18,510 --> 00:14:19,830
What did I give up?

333
00:14:19,830 --> 00:14:21,390
Absolutely nothing.

334
00:14:21,390 --> 00:14:23,746
How much careful budgeting did I do?

335
00:14:23,746 --> 00:14:25,740
None whatsoever.

336
00:14:25,740 --> 00:14:27,300
But now I have $100 a month.

337
00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:30,630
I did a blog post on cashflowcookbook.com,

338
00:14:30,630 --> 00:14:34,680
how I saved 94% on my prescription drugs.

339
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:35,790
Just that easy.

340
00:14:35,790 --> 00:14:40,380
So imagine if you knew all of these hacks

341
00:14:40,380 --> 00:14:44,970
in every category of spend,
housing, transportation,

342
00:14:44,970 --> 00:14:48,990
food, household, lifestyle, and financial.

343
00:14:48,990 --> 00:14:50,730
Imagine if every one of those costs

344
00:14:50,730 --> 00:14:53,460
and thousands of dollars
a month were optimized

345
00:14:53,460 --> 00:14:56,400
just like I did with
those prescription drugs.

346
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,520
So that's really what
"Cashflow Cookbook" is about.

347
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,940
People can use the book, I
kick-started with my talks,

348
00:15:02,940 --> 00:15:04,590
helps them free up the cash,

349
00:15:04,590 --> 00:15:06,633
gets to a place of financial wellness.

350
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:11,760
- Gordon, you just mentioned
I think five categories

351
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:16,760
of spend and you have examples
of ways that you can reduce

352
00:15:18,569 --> 00:15:21,660
your cost in each of those.

353
00:15:21,660 --> 00:15:26,250
Which of the five amount
for the biggest percentage

354
00:15:26,250 --> 00:15:30,570
of their pay or income?

355
00:15:30,570 --> 00:15:32,640
- Yeah, so there's six of them,

356
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,620
I listed them in order of spends.

357
00:15:34,620 --> 00:15:36,870
So housing tends to be one, you know,

358
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:39,090
flawed by transportation, food, household,

359
00:15:39,090 --> 00:15:40,833
lifestyle and financial.

360
00:15:41,940 --> 00:15:45,060
And you know, some are
more material than others.

361
00:15:45,060 --> 00:15:47,370
The book sets a minimum of $25 a month,

362
00:15:47,370 --> 00:15:49,919
but many of 'em are worth
two, three, $400 a month.

363
00:15:49,919 --> 00:15:51,450
And really interesting.

364
00:15:51,450 --> 00:15:52,980
Some are about conserving.

365
00:15:52,980 --> 00:15:56,400
So if we can find ways to
conserve an electricity and gas

366
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,380
in the home and some of
those kinds of things,

367
00:15:58,380 --> 00:16:01,170
some are about intelligent
comparison shopping,

368
00:16:01,170 --> 00:16:03,180
car insurance, house insurance,

369
00:16:03,180 --> 00:16:07,980
others are, you can appeal
things like your house taxes.

370
00:16:07,980 --> 00:16:10,860
And others are about applying innovation

371
00:16:10,860 --> 00:16:14,460
and disruptive companies
to save us dramatically.

372
00:16:14,460 --> 00:16:19,320
Example, someone moving from
a $200 a month cable TV bill

373
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,070
to YouTube TV at about $70 a month,

374
00:16:23,070 --> 00:16:25,980
there's $130 of savings there.

375
00:16:25,980 --> 00:16:29,253
So there's another item
that's worth checking out.

376
00:16:30,510 --> 00:16:32,730
Gimme an example of one
that was probably the most

377
00:16:32,730 --> 00:16:34,860
interesting one for me.

378
00:16:34,860 --> 00:16:38,550
And embarrassingly it's when
I missed in the first seven

379
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:40,861
printings of "Cashflow Cookbook,"

380
00:16:40,861 --> 00:16:45,240
and I'm a Canadian and
recently moved to the US,

381
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,730
and what I didn't realize
is when you switch countries

382
00:16:47,730 --> 00:16:50,250
you lose your entire credit history.

383
00:16:50,250 --> 00:16:53,373
So I tried to get a credit
card here in the US,

384
00:16:54,540 --> 00:16:57,153
and they said no, so what
do you mean no, you know.

385
00:16:58,767 --> 00:17:01,227
And I said, could you gimme a lower limit?

386
00:17:01,227 --> 00:17:03,600
And so we went down to a $300 credit card,

387
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,930
they would not give it to me
'cause I had no credit rating.

388
00:17:06,930 --> 00:17:11,490
Eventually I had to put down
$330 on deposit at the bank

389
00:17:11,490 --> 00:17:15,120
to get a credit card with a $300 limit.

390
00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:17,250
So that got me interested
in credit scores,

391
00:17:17,250 --> 00:17:21,150
which was a good thing because
I never really had thought

392
00:17:21,150 --> 00:17:21,983
much about it.

393
00:17:21,983 --> 00:17:24,750
I assumed I had a good credit
card, a good credit rating,

394
00:17:24,750 --> 00:17:26,220
I had lots of credit cards.

395
00:17:26,220 --> 00:17:28,410
But most people don't
know their credit score,

396
00:17:28,410 --> 00:17:31,410
they don't look into it,
they don't know the number.

397
00:17:31,410 --> 00:17:33,450
And here's the shocking part.

398
00:17:33,450 --> 00:17:36,360
Many, many, many credit
scores have errors in them,

399
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:38,100
in the credit reports.

400
00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:41,779
So you may have a much
more inferior credit score

401
00:17:41,779 --> 00:17:42,612
than you think you do.

402
00:17:42,612 --> 00:17:44,730
And here's why you care.

403
00:17:44,730 --> 00:17:48,300
So loans, the total interest
cost of a loan can swing

404
00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:52,290
by up to 70% depending
on your credit score.

405
00:17:52,290 --> 00:17:53,374
- Goodness.

406
00:17:53,374 --> 00:17:56,790
- Your car insurance costs
can swing by 30 to 50%

407
00:17:56,790 --> 00:18:00,930
and your home insurance
costs can swing by 30 to 50%.

408
00:18:00,930 --> 00:18:04,560
So it's entirely possible that
you could have two people,

409
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,320
let's think of them as twins
with identical everything.

410
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,520
And one is spending $1000
more on loan interest,

411
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:16,173
car insurance and home
insurance than his peer.

412
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,380
So there's a really
interesting one, and again,

413
00:18:19,380 --> 00:18:20,760
notice what happened there.

414
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,103
We correct errors on our credit score,

415
00:18:24,210 --> 00:18:27,210
we change our lifestyle, not a bit,

416
00:18:27,210 --> 00:18:31,023
but we might be freeing
up $500, $1000 a month.

417
00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:33,813
So when I work with people,

418
00:18:35,490 --> 00:18:38,820
typically I've not seen
anyone who's saved all $13,000

419
00:18:38,820 --> 00:18:40,921
that I document in the book.

420
00:18:40,921 --> 00:18:42,810
If they do have them reach out,

421
00:18:42,810 --> 00:18:45,210
I'll give 'em another
free copy of the book.

422
00:18:45,210 --> 00:18:48,722
But really typical people
can free up $500 a month,

423
00:18:48,722 --> 00:18:50,970
$1,000 a month, $2,000 a month.

424
00:18:50,970 --> 00:18:55,970
Now if you invest that at 7%
over the course of your career,

425
00:18:56,220 --> 00:18:59,160
very easy to add a million dollars.

426
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,800
So I'll often run through
examples of people adding

427
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,910
three or $4 million to
their wealth at retirement.

428
00:19:05,910 --> 00:19:08,163
And those are big lifestyle changes.

429
00:19:09,690 --> 00:19:11,670
- You know, we opened this conversation

430
00:19:11,670 --> 00:19:15,510
talking about how universal
financial stress is,

431
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:18,527
but something I was wanted to ask you,

432
00:19:18,527 --> 00:19:21,960
when I was managing HR

433
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,953
and I'm working with
employees at all levels,

434
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,180
I made an observation
that kind of surprised me,

435
00:19:30,180 --> 00:19:32,250
but it may be a wrong observation.

436
00:19:32,250 --> 00:19:37,250
And that is, being overextended
was not limited to folks

437
00:19:38,730 --> 00:19:42,628
who were on a much more fixed income

438
00:19:42,628 --> 00:19:47,628
that I found that that ran
all the way up to the C-suite,

439
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:51,300
and in certain parts of
the C-suite, even more so,

440
00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:55,440
meaning this is not a an income issue,

441
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,480
this is a lifestyle in the like issue.

442
00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,433
But did I read that right?

443
00:20:00,497 --> 00:20:02,400
- I see it all the time.

444
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,310
You need look no further than Hollywood,

445
00:20:05,310 --> 00:20:07,650
people like Nicholas Cage,

446
00:20:07,650 --> 00:20:11,820
with incomes that we couldn't
even dream of, broke,

447
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:14,190
Mike Tyson, broke.

448
00:20:14,190 --> 00:20:16,593
There was an interesting
case of a janitor,

449
00:20:17,730 --> 00:20:21,450
I think it was in Maine,
and he was single,

450
00:20:21,450 --> 00:20:23,610
he was a janitor, that's all he ever did.

451
00:20:23,610 --> 00:20:26,913
He died and left in a state of $8 million.

452
00:20:28,650 --> 00:20:32,880
Spending wisely investing in
blue chip, long term stocks,

453
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:34,383
left behind $8 million.

454
00:20:35,235 --> 00:20:39,030
And here we have Nicholas
Cage without a penny.

455
00:20:39,030 --> 00:20:43,501
So there's no question, this
goes across all income levels.

456
00:20:43,501 --> 00:20:46,890
When I talk to people
earning $50,000 a year,

457
00:20:46,890 --> 00:20:51,890
they'll say to me, look, I
just don't have 10% to save.

458
00:20:51,959 --> 00:20:56,193
Excuse me, when I talk to
people earning $500,000 a year,

459
00:20:57,060 --> 00:21:00,570
they say to me, I don't have 10% to save.

460
00:21:00,570 --> 00:21:02,400
I actually have a personal friend

461
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,000
who is a commercial lending VP at a bank.

462
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:11,000
He goes into debt $5,000 more every month.

463
00:21:11,154 --> 00:21:14,130
He works at a major bank.

464
00:21:14,130 --> 00:21:17,850
His game plan in retirement
is to sell his house

465
00:21:17,850 --> 00:21:19,980
in the city, retired to his cottage,

466
00:21:19,980 --> 00:21:23,220
and use those funds to
pay off as to ever growing

467
00:21:23,220 --> 00:21:24,810
line of credit.

468
00:21:24,810 --> 00:21:27,480
So you see this at all income levels

469
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,140
and when I speak with wealth advisors,

470
00:21:31,140 --> 00:21:34,680
they often say that they have
clients whose goal it is,

471
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,593
is to get to $0 of net worth.

472
00:21:38,490 --> 00:21:39,323
- Hmm.

473
00:21:39,323 --> 00:21:41,490
- And I'm talking about people
with considerable earning

474
00:21:41,490 --> 00:21:44,130
because you know, they
need the sports cars,

475
00:21:44,130 --> 00:21:46,260
and of course the cottage
and the private clubs,

476
00:21:46,260 --> 00:21:47,190
and the nannies.

477
00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:52,190
It's not hard to spend that
3, 4, 5, $600,000 a year.

478
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:53,837
But what does that really mean,

479
00:21:53,837 --> 00:21:57,210
you know, if you're an HR
leader in an organization,

480
00:21:57,210 --> 00:22:00,360
your people are absolutely
panicked about money.

481
00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:02,070
There is no doubt about it.

482
00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:04,410
It's an all consuming stress,

483
00:22:04,410 --> 00:22:06,810
and I think it's one of the
most important things we can do

484
00:22:06,810 --> 00:22:08,340
is to help 'em with that.

485
00:22:08,340 --> 00:22:09,873
I just think it's critical.

486
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,820
- Gordon, as you kind
of reflect on examples,

487
00:22:14,820 --> 00:22:18,903
where either you or clients got stuck,

488
00:22:19,830 --> 00:22:23,343
what did it take for you
or them to get unstuck?

489
00:22:24,313 --> 00:22:26,670
- I think from a financial perspective,

490
00:22:26,670 --> 00:22:29,370
when people get stuck, I
think they get really stuck,

491
00:22:29,370 --> 00:22:31,230
because again, they
don't have the education,

492
00:22:31,230 --> 00:22:33,811
they don't have the knowledge,
the spending continues.

493
00:22:33,811 --> 00:22:37,080
It's too difficult
emotionally to cut things

494
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,920
that they're invested in
from a thing perspective.

495
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:42,686
And we all have this as an issue.

496
00:22:42,686 --> 00:22:46,230
So I think without any
kind of external factors,

497
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:49,350
it's very hard for people to get unstuck.

498
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:50,310
What's exciting,

499
00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:52,830
what's interesting in
writing "Cashflow Cookbook"

500
00:22:52,830 --> 00:22:54,780
and why I'm so passionate about it is,

501
00:22:54,780 --> 00:22:58,086
I think absolutely
everybody can get unstuck.

502
00:22:58,086 --> 00:23:00,210
There was a gentleman
who reached out to me

503
00:23:00,210 --> 00:23:02,430
from the Midwest, I
think, who was in Kansas,

504
00:23:02,430 --> 00:23:05,670
and he said, look, sent me an email,

505
00:23:05,670 --> 00:23:07,200
I think he'd see me on a podcast.

506
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,562
And he said, look, maybe you can help.

507
00:23:09,562 --> 00:23:12,600
And here he was a six
figure income earner.

508
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:17,600
He was single, he was 47
years old, he had no wealth,

509
00:23:19,620 --> 00:23:22,320
nothing for retirement.

510
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,820
And yet he was earning six figures.

511
00:23:23,820 --> 00:23:27,600
And he said, I just don't
have the free cash flow.

512
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,510
So just because he seemed
very nice and very kind.

513
00:23:30,510 --> 00:23:32,670
And I was touched by a
situation, said, okay,

514
00:23:32,670 --> 00:23:35,100
why don't you send me a schedule
of all of your expenses?

515
00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:38,040
And we went through a
handful of simple changes.

516
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,550
I think we made six
changes in his spending.

517
00:23:41,550 --> 00:23:44,100
He freed up another $500 a month,

518
00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:48,300
he put that in his
company's contributory 401k,

519
00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:50,430
because I said to him,
well, nothing near 401k.

520
00:23:50,430 --> 00:23:51,700
And he said, "No."

521
00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:53,190
I said, what does your company contribute?

522
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:54,510
And he said, "Yeah."

523
00:23:54,510 --> 00:23:56,730
I said, well how can you
not contribute to that?

524
00:23:56,730 --> 00:23:58,560
He doesn't have any money.

525
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,580
So we freed up $500 a
month, put that on the 401k,

526
00:24:02,580 --> 00:24:04,590
and then we did a catch up call.

527
00:24:04,590 --> 00:24:07,727
He's on track to retire
with half a million dollars

528
00:24:07,727 --> 00:24:09,750
in his 401k.

529
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:10,680
That's not massive,

530
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,233
but I can tell you it's a
whole lot better than $0.

531
00:24:14,923 --> 00:24:17,850
So simple changes anyone can make.

532
00:24:17,850 --> 00:24:20,280
So lots of examples if you
wanted to get into some more,

533
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:21,113
Mike.

534
00:24:23,820 --> 00:24:27,060
- I do wanna ask a another
question other than an example,

535
00:24:27,060 --> 00:24:27,993
and that is,

536
00:24:29,130 --> 00:24:33,690
I just kind of just casually
used the term financial freedom

537
00:24:33,690 --> 00:24:36,990
and I'm looking at your backdrop,

538
00:24:36,990 --> 00:24:40,110
and it looks like it's
a canoeing and a like,

539
00:24:40,110 --> 00:24:42,120
but financial freedom.

540
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:44,730
I know that means different
things to other people,

541
00:24:44,730 --> 00:24:47,760
but when you are talking to groups

542
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,800
and you're trying to describe

543
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,270
what financial freedom looks
like, what's it feel like?

544
00:24:54,270 --> 00:24:56,283
How do you describe that?

545
00:24:57,210 --> 00:24:59,100
- That's a great question.

546
00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:00,870
I think at the simplest level,

547
00:25:00,870 --> 00:25:04,803
it happens when you
spend less than you earn.

548
00:25:04,803 --> 00:25:06,630
And the longer you do that,

549
00:25:06,630 --> 00:25:09,780
the more financially free you become.

550
00:25:09,780 --> 00:25:13,620
That would be one definition
and probably the simplest one.

551
00:25:13,620 --> 00:25:14,580
But what does it mean?

552
00:25:14,580 --> 00:25:19,580
I think it means you can go
after your life's purpose.

553
00:25:20,250 --> 00:25:21,180
I think for most of us,

554
00:25:21,180 --> 00:25:23,970
our life's purpose is to pay the bills,

555
00:25:23,970 --> 00:25:28,140
and to somehow tread water financially.

556
00:25:28,140 --> 00:25:30,480
And for many, many, many
people of low income levels,

557
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,763
it's about figuring out which bill to pay,

558
00:25:33,810 --> 00:25:35,490
and we only get one life.

559
00:25:35,490 --> 00:25:37,380
And so, you know,

560
00:25:37,380 --> 00:25:40,110
here's an opportunity to
go and live your best life,

561
00:25:40,110 --> 00:25:43,800
to do something that's
meaningful to really help people.

562
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,800
So, I attempted to retire
mid 50s and people say,

563
00:25:48,900 --> 00:25:50,280
wow, how'd you do that?

564
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,160
I always say to people, I
read my own book, you know,

565
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:54,960
because I think everybody can do that.

566
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,227
And then, you know,
because I wrote the book,

567
00:25:58,227 --> 00:26:01,380
and there's a lot of demand
for me to speak on the book

568
00:26:01,380 --> 00:26:03,750
to help others with
their personal finances.

569
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:05,700
But it's really changed my whole life

570
00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:08,190
because as I say at the start of the book,

571
00:26:08,190 --> 00:26:10,830
you know, I'm sitting in my studio,

572
00:26:10,830 --> 00:26:13,290
and I've got a whole
wall of guitars behind me

573
00:26:13,290 --> 00:26:17,340
and I often use the
weather app on my phone

574
00:26:17,340 --> 00:26:19,470
to determine my agenda for the day.

575
00:26:19,470 --> 00:26:20,400
So if it's nice,

576
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,010
I may want to get up
and do a bike or a kayak

577
00:26:23,010 --> 00:26:25,230
as you can see here in the picture.

578
00:26:25,230 --> 00:26:26,063
And if it's rainy,

579
00:26:26,063 --> 00:26:28,020
I might grab one of my
guitars off the wall

580
00:26:28,020 --> 00:26:29,160
and play my guitar.

581
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,073
Then my lead vocalist slash
wife will come in and you know,

582
00:26:33,073 --> 00:26:35,970
have some fun and do a jam for a while.

583
00:26:35,970 --> 00:26:38,520
And then, you know, when I'm working,

584
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,740
which is usually when it's rainy,

585
00:26:40,740 --> 00:26:41,970
you know, I'm working on talks,

586
00:26:41,970 --> 00:26:45,060
I'm out delivering talks
and I'm helping people.

587
00:26:45,060 --> 00:26:48,660
And I think about how far,
you know, that has taken me

588
00:26:48,660 --> 00:26:50,910
from working in the corporate world.

589
00:26:50,910 --> 00:26:52,170
Where many of us are working on things

590
00:26:52,170 --> 00:26:54,660
we're really not passionate about.

591
00:26:54,660 --> 00:26:57,540
So if we can find our career and our job,

592
00:26:57,540 --> 00:26:59,610
could be with an employer,
could be on their own,

593
00:26:59,610 --> 00:27:01,020
doing something they're interested in,

594
00:27:01,020 --> 00:27:03,270
they're passionate about,
helping other people,

595
00:27:03,270 --> 00:27:06,630
building a great organization,
growing our employees,

596
00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:11,280
those things get us to this
great state of freedom.

597
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,010
But you want to be there
where you're not sweating

598
00:27:14,010 --> 00:27:15,150
the finances.

599
00:27:15,150 --> 00:27:17,733
And let's us move up
that Maslow's pyramid.

600
00:27:19,410 --> 00:27:21,570
- Thank you for clarification.

601
00:27:21,570 --> 00:27:24,630
I wanna come back to the
"Cashflow Cookbook" for a moment.

602
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:27,510
I do believe I have the latest US version

603
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:29,730
and as I have read through it,

604
00:27:29,730 --> 00:27:32,760
I've not had the time to read through it,

605
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,430
cover to cover like I intend to.

606
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:38,640
But as I was reading through
this, I got this last week,

607
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:43,020
what I love about this
is it's very digestible,

608
00:27:43,020 --> 00:27:46,170
if you allow me to use that
term it being a cookbook.

609
00:27:46,170 --> 00:27:51,170
But you spend about two
pages max on a category.

610
00:27:53,521 --> 00:27:56,190
And you got 'em broken down
by those different categories.

611
00:27:56,190 --> 00:28:00,660
But what I would say is that
it's not intimidating at all

612
00:28:00,660 --> 00:28:02,250
to to read.

613
00:28:02,250 --> 00:28:06,393
You look at it and you kind of
go, ah, that's common sense.

614
00:28:07,410 --> 00:28:08,970
I can do that.

615
00:28:08,970 --> 00:28:12,240
And you shared both in the book,

616
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,780
and what you mentioned
earlier, it doesn't take a lot,

617
00:28:15,780 --> 00:28:18,840
if you were to adopt five
or six of these things,

618
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,847
it can make a huge difference.

619
00:28:21,847 --> 00:28:25,380
Gordon, you shared in
our prior conversation

620
00:28:25,380 --> 00:28:28,380
a little bit about how this
has kind of enlightened

621
00:28:28,380 --> 00:28:31,050
a sense of passion in you.

622
00:28:31,050 --> 00:28:33,370
And that is you're not necessarily selling

623
00:28:33,370 --> 00:28:36,243
"Cashflow Cookbooks"
because you need the money.

624
00:28:38,010 --> 00:28:39,390
Maybe I shouldn't say it that way,

625
00:28:39,390 --> 00:28:41,820
but that's kind of how I took it.

626
00:28:41,820 --> 00:28:42,720
- Right.

627
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,020
- But but you're doing this and
it's bringing you in contact

628
00:28:46,020 --> 00:28:50,250
with individuals and with groups
and you're changing lives.

629
00:28:50,250 --> 00:28:51,550
That has to be gratifying.

630
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:54,175
- You know what?

631
00:28:54,175 --> 00:28:56,400
It really is fantastic.

632
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,470
And I think it's really
important for people, you know,

633
00:28:58,470 --> 00:28:59,700
if they're working at companies

634
00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:03,000
or they've got their own
business to be really passionate

635
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,640
about what they do and
and get involved in it,

636
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,080
and really try and make a difference.

637
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,340
And you know,

638
00:29:08,340 --> 00:29:10,920
when I get people speaking
with me after I do a talk

639
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,160
at a company, an employee
session and people say,

640
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,876
wow, I had no idea I
could make these changes.

641
00:29:16,876 --> 00:29:20,010
You know, and I love your
notion of getting unstuck

642
00:29:20,010 --> 00:29:21,510
'cause that's what it is.

643
00:29:21,510 --> 00:29:24,030
So if you made a simple change, you know,

644
00:29:24,030 --> 00:29:27,584
maybe you're spending 100 or
$200 a month on, you know,

645
00:29:27,584 --> 00:29:30,188
prescription drugs as we talked about,

646
00:29:30,188 --> 00:29:33,810
there's ways to save on
every category of spend,

647
00:29:33,810 --> 00:29:35,670
simple changes anyone can make.

648
00:29:35,670 --> 00:29:36,630
And then you know what,

649
00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:38,670
they get to this point of being free.

650
00:29:38,670 --> 00:29:41,700
They get unstuck in their finances,

651
00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:44,970
and let's now move on to
something like our family,

652
00:29:44,970 --> 00:29:48,540
or our employees, or
helping our community,

653
00:29:48,540 --> 00:29:52,500
or doing something you're
passionate about, playing music,

654
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:53,333
whatever it is.

655
00:29:53,333 --> 00:29:54,750
But we can all get to a better place

656
00:29:54,750 --> 00:29:57,453
than being stuck on our finances.

657
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,040
- Gordon, you have given
us some great examples

658
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,940
in which practically you can get unstuck.

659
00:30:05,940 --> 00:30:09,660
I appreciate you sharing
these with us today.

660
00:30:09,660 --> 00:30:11,760
If folks wanna learn
more or reach out to you,

661
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,760
what's the best way for them to do that?

662
00:30:14,850 --> 00:30:16,170
- Again, take a look at my website,

663
00:30:16,170 --> 00:30:18,899
which is cashflowcookbook.com.

664
00:30:18,899 --> 00:30:22,050
So I've got about 60 blog posts up there.

665
00:30:22,050 --> 00:30:25,110
I set them aside while I was
writing the latest edition

666
00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:26,610
so I can get rolling on that.

667
00:30:26,610 --> 00:30:29,790
Again, they can subscribe to my blogs.

668
00:30:29,790 --> 00:30:34,470
I don't sell their names anywhere
or their email addresses.

669
00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:36,844
You get a blog post a week or so.

670
00:30:36,844 --> 00:30:39,930
Just different ideas to
help with your finances.

671
00:30:39,930 --> 00:30:41,760
So there's lots more
content and information

672
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,220
on cashflowcookbook.com.

673
00:30:44,220 --> 00:30:46,140
If they want to get a copy of the book,

674
00:30:46,140 --> 00:30:49,656
there's a Canadian edition
and a US edition up on Amazon.

675
00:30:49,656 --> 00:30:52,740
So there's a simple way,
it's available as a paperback

676
00:30:52,740 --> 00:30:54,570
or as a kindle edition.

677
00:30:54,570 --> 00:30:57,540
So you know, awfully low cost price point.

678
00:30:57,540 --> 00:30:59,400
People say what's the best investment?

679
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:00,870
I say educational learning.

680
00:31:00,870 --> 00:31:04,552
So here's a great place to get
started with your finances.

681
00:31:04,552 --> 00:31:07,440
For employers, if they're
interested in have me come

682
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,330
and speak to their employees,

683
00:31:09,330 --> 00:31:12,150
I absolutely do that with great passion.

684
00:31:12,150 --> 00:31:15,942
And I do both virtual and
live, and even hybrid sessions.

685
00:31:15,942 --> 00:31:20,160
So do that all across the
United States and Canada.

686
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,070
There's a speaking section on my website,

687
00:31:23,070 --> 00:31:24,660
cashflowcookbook.com.

688
00:31:24,660 --> 00:31:27,180
They can check that out or
reach out and book some time

689
00:31:27,180 --> 00:31:28,140
with me.

690
00:31:28,140 --> 00:31:32,010
And yeah, those are the
main ways are social media.

691
00:31:32,010 --> 00:31:35,400
I'm usually @cashflow
cookbook other than Twitter,

692
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:36,810
who's a little stingy with a letter,

693
00:31:36,810 --> 00:31:41,810
so it's @cashflowcookbk,
missing the final two Os.

694
00:31:43,030 --> 00:31:44,970
But yeah, and love to connect.

695
00:31:44,970 --> 00:31:47,820
You can figure out how to reach
me directly from my website

696
00:31:47,820 --> 00:31:49,959
if you've got questions or ideas.

697
00:31:49,959 --> 00:31:53,523
Love to hear from you, and
love to connect with people.

698
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,300
- We'll include all of
that contact information

699
00:31:57,300 --> 00:31:58,800
in the show notes.

700
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,210
I have been on your website,

701
00:32:00,210 --> 00:32:02,691
and I have read a number of your blogs.

702
00:32:02,691 --> 00:32:05,490
It's an excellent
website, very informative,

703
00:32:05,490 --> 00:32:07,830
the blogs do kind of draw you in.

704
00:32:07,830 --> 00:32:11,099
And I just wanna say thank
you for spending time

705
00:32:11,099 --> 00:32:14,793
with me today, sharing your passion.

706
00:32:16,050 --> 00:32:16,883
- Terrific.

707
00:32:16,883 --> 00:32:20,310
Great to be here, and let's
get more people unstuck, Mike.

708
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:22,773
- Well, with your help,
we'll do just that.

709
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,900
I also wanna thank our
listeners for joining us today.

710
00:32:27,900 --> 00:32:30,540
We upload the latest
episode every Thursday

711
00:32:30,540 --> 00:32:34,320
to all the major platforms,
including Apple and Spotify.

712
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,900
So if you've enjoyed
this episode with Gordon,

713
00:32:36,900 --> 00:32:38,550
please subscribe.

714
00:32:38,550 --> 00:32:40,470
I've got a question for our listeners.

715
00:32:40,470 --> 00:32:42,150
Are you trying to grow your business

716
00:32:42,150 --> 00:32:44,520
and you wanna make sure that
you got the right people,

717
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,420
process and planning systems
in place to grow smoothly?

718
00:32:48,420 --> 00:32:53,040
If yes, let's talk head to unstuck.show

719
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,760
and schedule a quick non sales call.

720
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,980
We'll talk about your growth goals,

721
00:32:58,980 --> 00:33:02,280
and I'll do what I can to
offer some actionable guidance

722
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,710
to help you grow your business.

723
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:06,540
So I wanna thank you for joining us

724
00:33:06,540 --> 00:33:09,660
and I hope you have picked
up on some tips from Gordon

725
00:33:09,660 --> 00:33:13,200
that will help you get
unstuck and on target.

726
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:14,078
Until next time.

727
00:33:14,078 --> 00:33:17,245
(upbeat gentle music)