Episode 90: Helping Women Increase Their Revenue by at Least $30K in a Year with Mia Smithson

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(uplifting music)

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- Welcome back to the "Get
Unstuck and On Target" podcast.

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I'm Mike O'Neill with Bench Builders

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and we help growing companies,

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especially manufacturers,
improve their people process

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and planning systems so they
can scale smarter and faster.

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Joining me today from
Chicago is Maria Smithson.

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Mia is the founder and
CEO of the $30K Program.

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During the last seven years,

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Mia has scaled her career
from a junior recruiter

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to the Director of Talent Management.

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She has interviewed over 5,000 candidates

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and has placed hundreds at companies

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like VML, Blue Cross
Blue Shield and Google.

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Now, as their name might suggest,

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Mia's team helps women earn $30,000 plus

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in additional yearly income.

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Welcome Mia.

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- I'm excited to be here. (chuckling)

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- Well, I'm glad you're here as well,

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as we've had a chance to talk prior

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when we were scheduling this podcast,

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I asked if you were to
summarize almost into a phrase,

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what that phrase would be,

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is you said, "Mike, it's your
observation is that women

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tend to undervalue themselves."

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Can you elaborate on that?

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- Yeah, definitely.

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So one of the biggest
themes that I've noticed

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is that a man and a woman
will be interviewing

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for the same role and though
a comparable experience.

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And the man will ask for, say, $140K,

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and the woman will ask
for, say, one $120K,

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and then immediately
she'll pull out that number

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and she'll say, "No, I'd
be okay with going lower."

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And it's this immediate
degradation of her business worth.

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And it's also really fascinating

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because typically during that negotiation,

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there's a pause right
after you say the number,

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and the men oftentimes are
comfortable in the silence,

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and it's the women who are like,

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"Oh my gosh, what are they gonna say?

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Ah!"

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And then they're like, "Hold
on, I just wanted you to know

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that I could go lower,
it's not a big deal,"

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and it's like, and I've
heard this literally

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hundreds of times.

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And so, I mean, like,
obviously, it's really key

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is why we created The $30K
Program is to help women

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to negotiate and to
feel confident doing so.

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- Now, as you know, we're
recording both audio and video.

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And so the very beginning,
when you start talking,

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you are talking so soft and
I wanted to kind of turn up

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your volume.

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And then all of a sudden
you got so animated,

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but you got animated

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because this is something
that speaks to you.

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This has kind of become a passion.

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It's such a passion that you've actually

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have started a business to
help women address this issue.

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I didn't tell you this up front,

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but can I tell you one reason
why I was most interested

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in speaking with you?

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- Please do.

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- When I see The $30K Program,

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it doesn't take much
thought to understand,

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oh, okay, she helps women kind
of get what they're worth.

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And that is part of what you do.

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And my understanding is that your program

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not only helps women

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get a higher paying job,

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but you also have a track for women

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who wanna start their own business.

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And that particularly caught my attention,

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and that is, how do you go about starting

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and scaling a profitable
business if you're a woman?

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And the third track that you offer,

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if I understand this correctly,

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is what about people
perhaps like yourself,

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who has a very successful corporate role,

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but you also have an additional business

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and that way you help train
women on how to do both?

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I think you call it "For
one who wants it all,"

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get the raise and start and
scale a profitable business.

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Do I understand your offerings correctly?

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- Yes, exactly.

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Yeah, so what is really
fascinating is that

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we all have these core
skills and strengths

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that oftentimes remain hidden

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unless you take proactive
steps to really share them

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with the world.

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And so with our track,

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like The One Who Wants It All, right,

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they want the promotion and
they also wanna start a business

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that is really that opportunity
where we essentially

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take those key skills
that they've developed

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and we work with them to
develop a business around it.

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So we do both one-on-one
as well as group coaching

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within the program,

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so you actually have that
coach to really deep dive in

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and figure out what are
the types of businesses

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that would work for you.

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And I will say that there
are some businesses that

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year one are really hard to be profitable.

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So if you wanted to
start like a CPG business

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or consumer packaged goods business,

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there's inventory costs,

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there's a lot up front.

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And so one of the steps
that we take with our women

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is really vetting out,

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I mean, do you want this to
be profitable in year one,

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which is really what we focus on,

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and if so,

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what are the types of
businesses that will allow you

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to do that?

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Because it isn't every business,

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so that is just something
to be cognizant of.

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- So why don't we kind of
break down our conversation

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into two main tracks.

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Let's start with the
Traditional Corporate Track,

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and that is

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a woman who wants to

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earn what she is worth and/or get promoted

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and get paid what she's worth.

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And in terms of how you
and your team helps them,

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can you kinda walk us through,

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what does that process look like?

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- Yeah, definitely.

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So the first step is where
the person really does

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architect kind of what
that career vision is,

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what they wanna get promoted into.

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And one thing that is interesting
is that there are actually

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some women who don't necessarily
even wanna get promoted

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directly to that next role within say,

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the career track that they're naturally in

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within their company,

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but there could be a role
elsewhere in the company

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that could actually be a
really great potential fit,

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and where there are
those transferable skills

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where they could still get a pay raise,

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and additional responsibilities
through utilizing the skills

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that they've already developed.

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So we really try not
to have a linear focus

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where it's like, well, if
you're mid-level sales rep,

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we'll help you to get to
a senior level sales rep.

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That's obviously one option,

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but there's more to that.

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So the first step is the
fun, kind of, the architect,

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the visionary phase, where
you really get to iron it out,

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and then after that, we get
very granular with the actual,

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if it is purely a promotion
and it is really tying in

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your manager from the get
go about a year in advance

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and architecting what are the core metrics

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that you will achieve in order
to get a promotion per se,

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and then taking the
corresponding steps that you guys

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have outlined in order
to make that happen.

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- Now you've just pointed
out something that I failed

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to mention up front, and that is,

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this approach is a very
specific, it's a method,

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it's a method that has
been fine tuned over time,

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but it takes time and
you kind of break down,

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if I understand correctly, this process,

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you use the word quarterly,
but in quarterly chunks,

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here are the things that your team works

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with your clients on to
achieve a certain outcome.

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And I'm so glad you pointed out something,

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and that is, when I describe
a promotion, in my minds eye,

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I was thinking more
linearly, going straight up

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to the next role.

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And that may very well
be what she would want,

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but there could very well be
a job that would really use

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her skillsets in some other capacity.

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And I think what I'm hearing,
you use the word architect,

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you help them develop kind of a roadmap

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on how to get to that point over time.

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May I ask, in your experience,

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what about that process early on

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presents the biggest challenges to women?

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- Now that's a great question.

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So I would say first is a lack of clarity

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in what they want,

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having the long term vision,

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and then being able to break
it up into the baby steps

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to actually make that a reality.

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And I would say the second part of it is

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a lack of belief in themselves, right?

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'Cause no one's really
gonna be confident in you

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unless you're confident in you.

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- Yes.

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- If you say something
(chuckling)

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and you don't have that authority

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and you don't have that energy,

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no one's gonna take you seriously.

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And so I'd say that that
is the other element

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is where women are just kind of like,

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almost like subservient.

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They're not aggressively actually pursuing

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what they want in their lives,

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and they're kind of scared to do it.

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And so that is one of the things

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that we definitely do
work with our women on

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is just building the confidence around

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who they are and really empowering them

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to be the best versions of themselves,

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especially within their careers,

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(chuckling) so.
- Yes,

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- Now my understanding
is you use a combination

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of approaches there.

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You and your team work
one-on-one with the clients,

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you work with groups.

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And then my understanding is

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folks who go through your program

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have the opportunity to be
part of a community of others.

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Can you tell us a little more about,

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what does a community mean to clients?

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And I hate to generalize
with these comments

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about women in general,

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but why is community
particularly important to women

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who want to earn what they feel

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that they're entitled to earn?

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- Yeah, so it's that phrase,
your network is your net worth.

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And I do really think that that is true.

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And so the community aspect, I mean,

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we have our active Facebook group,

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we have weekly group calls,

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and what's really cool about it is that

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you're actually in a group with all people

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who are in your path.

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So say you want to, you're
the one who wants it all.

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You wanna start the business,

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and then you also wanna get promoted.

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Wouldn't really make sense for
you to be in the same group,

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as someone who just wants to get a new job

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outside of her company.

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And so we do, it is super tailored

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and one really large benefit for,

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especially those who do
wanna start a business

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is that oftentimes when
you start a business,

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you have no reviews.

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Nobody knows about you.

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If you develop any sort of
a minimal viable product,

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you wanna have people who
are able to test it out

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and see what it's like and everything,

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and so having a group of
women who can be there,

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they can actually test
out the initial creations

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of those initial iterations,
give you feedback.

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It's interesting,

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we've had some women actually
start coaching businesses.

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They've done kind of free
coaching calls with women

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in the group just to gain
practice, gain experience,

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and that way, before they
actually start selling

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their services,

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they are able to actually
see results with the women

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within our own network that
they've been able to help.

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So it's just really cool
because you're just surrounded

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by a family of women and
you don't feel alone.

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Oftentimes I feel like we're
entrepreneurs, you know,

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can just spend hours alone,
working late into the night.

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And we really wanna move away from that

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to where we have this
culture of collaboration

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and we are able to go
farther together, so.

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- Yeah, I'm glad you clarify,

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because when I talk about community,

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I probably stop short of
what you just described.

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I would say no, you're
there to support each other.

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Well, if this community is built of

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not only like-minded folks,

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but also who are doing
the exact same thing,

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they're building their own enterprise

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and starting a business.

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People oftentimes have a great idea,

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but take that idea

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and turn it into a business that's viable.

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It's a total different animal
and you're kind of creating

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almost an incubator with
the people in the program

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that so they can use that.

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I think it's a great idea.

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- Thanks.

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(laughing)

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- We very quickly have
moved from corporate

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to the entrepreneur.

00:13:43.020 --> 00:13:46.680
I'm drawn to the entrepreneurial
side of this conversation,

00:13:46.680 --> 00:13:49.030
and maybe I should go
ahead and follow this up.

00:13:50.400 --> 00:13:52.950
Women who wanna start their own business,

00:13:52.950 --> 00:13:54.480
you said that in the corporate world,

00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:56.370
one of the biggest barriers early on

00:13:56.370 --> 00:13:58.890
is a sense of self-confidence.

00:13:58.890 --> 00:14:02.940
What about a entrepreneurial-minded woman?

00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:06.000
What are you finding
particularly early on the process

00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:08.340
that they struggle with most?

00:14:08.340 --> 00:14:11.796
- Yeah, 100% is fear of failure.

00:14:11.796 --> 00:14:14.760
It's interesting, I noticed,
so corporate America,

00:14:14.760 --> 00:14:16.530
it's the lack of confidence.

00:14:16.530 --> 00:14:19.740
It's imposter syndrome
that I see a lot of times,

00:14:19.740 --> 00:14:21.300
but when you're starting something,

00:14:21.300 --> 00:14:22.530
and when you're testing

00:14:22.530 --> 00:14:25.710
and creating a minimal
viable product or whatever,

00:14:25.710 --> 00:14:29.730
whatever it is that you're
pursuing entrepreneurially,

00:14:29.730 --> 00:14:32.460
there's so much failure
in entrepreneurship,

00:14:32.460 --> 00:14:34.290
and it's how you have these iterations

00:14:34.290 --> 00:14:38.910
and how you're able to
quickly shift gears and tweak.

00:14:38.910 --> 00:14:41.340
And I know when I first started coaching,

00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:43.530
I called it Dream You,

00:14:43.530 --> 00:14:46.770
and I did general life
coaching and business coaching,

00:14:46.770 --> 00:14:51.207
and it was like, "If you need
any help, I can help you."

00:14:51.207 --> 00:14:53.760
And it was not pinpointed at all.

00:14:53.760 --> 00:14:55.200
It was not specific.

00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:58.560
I didn't even have a website
when I signed my first client.

00:14:58.560 --> 00:15:02.370
I literally made $1,500
that first weekend,

00:15:02.370 --> 00:15:04.980
and I literally, I did
not even have a website.

00:15:04.980 --> 00:15:06.297
So I did not know what I was doing.

00:15:06.297 --> 00:15:08.070
And I was just failing left and right.

00:15:08.070 --> 00:15:11.160
I was like, we're just
working through this.

00:15:11.160 --> 00:15:15.180
And so that's really how
we do support our women

00:15:15.180 --> 00:15:18.630
is knowing that failure is feedback.

00:15:18.630 --> 00:15:20.850
It's simply a data point

00:15:20.850 --> 00:15:23.880
and you don't have to get
emotionally involved in failure.

00:15:23.880 --> 00:15:28.560
And actually, the more quickly
that you can notice failure

00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:31.290
and be like, oh, that's
interesting, that didn't work.

00:15:31.290 --> 00:15:32.640
Why didn't it work?

00:15:32.640 --> 00:15:33.810
And how can we learn?

00:15:33.810 --> 00:15:35.940
And how can we improve because of that,

00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:38.070
the more quickly you're able to just grow.

00:15:38.070 --> 00:15:41.400
It's really when you get stuck on it,

00:15:41.400 --> 00:15:45.750
and when you start to tangle your personal

00:15:45.750 --> 00:15:48.690
with your business worth,
that you run into issues.

00:15:48.690 --> 00:15:51.420
When all of a sudden you, I don't know,

00:15:51.420 --> 00:15:53.430
from a coaching perspective,

00:15:53.430 --> 00:15:56.280
if you have 10 consult calls in a row

00:15:56.280 --> 00:15:58.410
and say, you didn't sign any clients,

00:15:58.410 --> 00:16:00.307
it would be very easy to say,

00:16:00.307 --> 00:16:03.089
"Well, something is wrong
with me as a person.

00:16:03.089 --> 00:16:04.440
I'm the problem."

00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.490
Instead of, something
that I'm doing is an issue

00:16:08.490 --> 00:16:12.120
where maybe it's how I'm connecting with

00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:14.220
the potential clients and
you know what I'm saying,

00:16:14.220 --> 00:16:17.370
it's that untangling of that personal

00:16:17.370 --> 00:16:18.210
and of the business worth.

00:16:18.210 --> 00:16:19.043
So it's interesting,

00:16:19.043 --> 00:16:21.530
I feel like everything is
kind of interconnected.

00:16:21.530 --> 00:16:23.460
It kind of starts with
the fear of failure,

00:16:23.460 --> 00:16:25.830
and then as you get deeper into it,

00:16:25.830 --> 00:16:27.720
you realize that it's
kind of interconnected

00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:30.840
to other kind of, core themes
that we really go through

00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:32.133
in the program, so.

00:16:33.570 --> 00:16:34.770
- In your literature,

00:16:34.770 --> 00:16:37.260
you kind of elaborate on
the aspects of starting

00:16:37.260 --> 00:16:38.093
the business.

00:16:38.093 --> 00:16:42.780
If fear of failure is very, very common

00:16:42.780 --> 00:16:46.860
amongst entrepreneurs or
wanna be entrepreneurs,

00:16:46.860 --> 00:16:49.080
as that process of starting the business

00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:51.060
kind of gets underway,

00:16:51.060 --> 00:16:55.380
you are trying to give
your clients a sense of how

00:16:55.380 --> 00:16:58.380
you could turn, this may
be a full-time enterprise,

00:16:58.380 --> 00:17:01.879
this could be a side hustle
if I could use that term,

00:17:01.879 --> 00:17:04.900
but you're really trying to give them

00:17:07.558 --> 00:17:10.590
a path to success.

00:17:10.590 --> 00:17:14.700
And if they're able to
overcome that fear of failure,

00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:18.922
the process that you share
with them, what do you find?

00:17:18.922 --> 00:17:23.922
When does things really begin
to get some sense of traction?

00:17:24.600 --> 00:17:27.570
- Yeah, so we,

00:17:27.570 --> 00:17:30.240
actually when a woman
first starts our program,

00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.480
we mail them, call it the Failure Jar,

00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:36.067
which it sounds very weird on the surface,

00:17:36.067 --> 00:17:41.067
but it is literally a glass Mason jar,

00:17:41.070 --> 00:17:46.050
and we send a bag of coffee
beans, and it's like, cute.

00:17:46.050 --> 00:17:47.940
It's very it's branded and everything.

00:17:47.940 --> 00:17:50.070
And it looks adorable.

00:17:50.070 --> 00:17:53.280
But essentially every time they fail,

00:17:53.280 --> 00:17:55.710
they put in a coffee bean,

00:17:55.710 --> 00:17:59.220
and then they get to
determine what a reward is

00:17:59.220 --> 00:18:00.410
when they hit certain levels.

00:18:00.410 --> 00:18:03.960
So when they have 25 fails,

00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:06.690
then they go get a massage or something.

00:18:06.690 --> 00:18:08.370
Like you know what I'm saying,

00:18:08.370 --> 00:18:12.750
they basically positively
reinforce failure

00:18:12.750 --> 00:18:15.150
so that it becomes less scary

00:18:15.150 --> 00:18:17.910
and actually becomes
something that is desirable

00:18:17.910 --> 00:18:19.320
because the more that you're failing

00:18:19.320 --> 00:18:20.970
and quickly iterating,

00:18:20.970 --> 00:18:22.980
the more that you're
able to actually grow.

00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:25.740
And so I would say that that
has been really a cornerstone.

00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:28.529
And that idea came from Sarah Blakely,

00:18:28.529 --> 00:18:33.450
who one of the things her
dad would always say to her

00:18:33.450 --> 00:18:36.270
at the dinner table was,
"What did you fail at today?"

00:18:36.270 --> 00:18:39.457
And if she didn't have a
story, he would be like,

00:18:39.457 --> 00:18:41.250
"Well, you're obviously
not trying hard enough

00:18:41.250 --> 00:18:43.320
or you'd have more failures."

00:18:43.320 --> 00:18:48.060
And so she's obviously doing pretty well

00:18:48.060 --> 00:18:51.990
as one of the (chuckling)
youngest female billionaires

00:18:51.990 --> 00:18:54.210
in America, if not the world.

00:18:54.210 --> 00:18:56.370
So you can learn some things from her.

00:18:56.370 --> 00:18:58.257
(laughing)

00:18:58.257 --> 00:19:00.270
- We can learn a lot from her

00:19:00.270 --> 00:19:03.118
and I love the visual

00:19:03.118 --> 00:19:06.540
of dropping a bean.

00:19:06.540 --> 00:19:08.640
And you made an interesting point,

00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:11.250
and that is particularly when
you're starting a business,

00:19:11.250 --> 00:19:14.550
you know, you're gonna fail at things,

00:19:14.550 --> 00:19:16.950
but because you fail
at things does not mean

00:19:16.950 --> 00:19:19.470
that you are a failure.

00:19:19.470 --> 00:19:21.990
And I love the way that you've tried to,

00:19:21.990 --> 00:19:26.990
through this approach,
to destigmatize failure,

00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:30.930
that it goes with the territory.

00:19:30.930 --> 00:19:34.500
But if you have more beans in the jar,

00:19:34.500 --> 00:19:36.840
that means you're trying that much harder,

00:19:36.840 --> 00:19:38.850
and you're putting more into it.

00:19:38.850 --> 00:19:42.690
I love that as a good illustration.

00:19:42.690 --> 00:19:43.523
Perfect.

00:19:46.080 --> 00:19:49.140
We've talked a little bit
about the corporate world.

00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:51.600
We've talked a little bit
about the entrepreneurial world

00:19:51.600 --> 00:19:54.960
and we've talked about the
potential fusion of the two.

00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:58.410
Why don't we go back a
little bit to something

00:19:58.410 --> 00:20:01.860
that we started the
conversation and that is,

00:20:01.860 --> 00:20:03.810
this is when you start
talking real quietly,

00:20:03.810 --> 00:20:07.560
and you said that you "find
that when men are asked

00:20:07.560 --> 00:20:10.080
to state a salary expectation,

00:20:10.080 --> 00:20:15.080
they'll quote a number, but
women will quote a number

00:20:15.750 --> 00:20:18.507
and almost immediately qualify that."

00:20:20.005 --> 00:20:20.838
Tell a little more about

00:20:20.838 --> 00:20:23.321
why you think that is the case.

00:20:23.321 --> 00:20:26.460
Why do women tend to do that?

00:20:26.460 --> 00:20:30.540
- Well first, the strongest negotiators

00:20:30.540 --> 00:20:32.223
don't quote the number first.

00:20:34.350 --> 00:20:37.170
So as I'm sure you
know, within recruiting,

00:20:37.170 --> 00:20:39.000
there's this thing called reversing,

00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:41.100
which is where someone
asks you a question,

00:20:41.100 --> 00:20:42.720
and instead of answering it,

00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.570
you reverse it and you
ask them a question.

00:20:45.570 --> 00:20:48.210
So the people, from what I've seen,

00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:49.860
oftentimes they're men,

00:20:49.860 --> 00:20:54.410
who end up negotiating
for the highest salaries,

00:20:54.410 --> 00:20:57.270
I'll ask them, "Well,
what is the salary range

00:20:57.270 --> 00:20:58.350
that you're targeting?"

00:20:58.350 --> 00:20:59.900
And they'll reverse it and say,

00:21:00.764 --> 00:21:04.539
"Well, I'm curious, what is
the salary range for the role?"

00:21:04.539 --> 00:21:06.450
(laughs)

00:21:06.450 --> 00:21:08.310
You would be shocked,
the number of recruiters

00:21:08.310 --> 00:21:10.893
that will tell you what
that salary range is.

00:21:12.090 --> 00:21:14.790
And I'll actually give you
just a really quick example.

00:21:14.790 --> 00:21:17.100
So my sister's also a recruiter

00:21:17.100 --> 00:21:21.090
and she did this reversing
technique with the company

00:21:21.090 --> 00:21:22.560
she's actually currently with.

00:21:22.560 --> 00:21:26.850
And the amount, the number
that she had in her head

00:21:26.850 --> 00:21:29.640
was actually much lower than the amount

00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:30.810
that they ended up offering.

00:21:30.810 --> 00:21:33.390
And the reason why she
got the higher amount

00:21:33.390 --> 00:21:35.100
was because she literally reversed it.

00:21:35.100 --> 00:21:35.933
They said, "What was the salary range

00:21:35.933 --> 00:21:37.200
that you're targeting?"

00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:38.250
She reversed it.

00:21:38.250 --> 00:21:40.057
They said that number and they were like,

00:21:40.057 --> 00:21:41.160
"Well, is this something

00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:43.140
that you would be comfortable with?"

00:21:43.140 --> 00:21:46.320
And she was like, "Well,
it's a little bit low,

00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:48.527
but I might be able to make it work."

00:21:48.527 --> 00:21:50.068
(laughing)

00:21:50.068 --> 00:21:51.509
And so she literally got,

00:21:51.509 --> 00:21:54.690
it was a substantial amount larger

00:21:54.690 --> 00:21:56.670
than she was ever anticipating

00:21:56.670 --> 00:22:00.300
because she didn't say that number first.

00:22:00.300 --> 00:22:01.950
If you read a lot of negotiation books,

00:22:01.950 --> 00:22:03.720
they call it "spilling the candy."

00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:05.890
When you're like, "This
is what I'm looking for,

00:22:05.890 --> 00:22:06.723
blah, blah, blah,"

00:22:06.723 --> 00:22:08.160
you're just spread it out.

00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:11.880
You really wanna keep your
cards closer to the best

00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:15.000
and find out as much information first.

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.080
And I think back to the
main crux of the question,

00:22:19.080 --> 00:22:24.080
I don't think women, first
off, have the knowledge base

00:22:25.170 --> 00:22:28.530
to know that there are
techniques like reversing

00:22:28.530 --> 00:22:30.150
that can be really valuable,

00:22:30.150 --> 00:22:35.150
and I also think that women
are really scared of rejection.

00:22:35.220 --> 00:22:38.280
They're scared of being
told that what they want

00:22:38.280 --> 00:22:40.260
is too high.

00:22:40.260 --> 00:22:41.340
So I think that's part of it.

00:22:41.340 --> 00:22:43.748
And then also they're
scared of the silence.

00:22:43.748 --> 00:22:47.400
So if there's any silence
after they say the number,

00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:48.637
all of a sudden, they're like,

00:22:48.637 --> 00:22:51.060
"Oh my gosh, I don't
know what's gonna happen

00:22:51.060 --> 00:22:53.761
so I'm just gonna take back that number."

00:22:53.761 --> 00:22:56.111
And you have to be willing
to just sit with it,

00:22:57.027 --> 00:22:57.860
and it's always awkward
'cause you're like,

00:22:57.860 --> 00:23:01.893
"I have no idea what
that person will say."

00:23:01.893 --> 00:23:03.243
You just have to sit there.

00:23:04.860 --> 00:23:05.916
But it's a skill.

00:23:05.916 --> 00:23:08.970
It's like anything and
the more that you do it,

00:23:08.970 --> 00:23:11.010
the more you become comfortable with it,

00:23:11.010 --> 00:23:12.690
and the more success that you have.

00:23:12.690 --> 00:23:16.230
And I will say, we work with our women.

00:23:16.230 --> 00:23:21.230
We don't just have them
prepare for their negotiation

00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:25.500
with like, job, I don't know, like,

00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:27.450
pretend negotiations with their friends.

00:23:27.450 --> 00:23:30.450
We actually have them negotiate for things

00:23:30.450 --> 00:23:32.340
within their lives,

00:23:32.340 --> 00:23:36.360
so that by the time that
they actually are negotiating

00:23:36.360 --> 00:23:41.360
for a raise or negotiating
the salary of a new role,

00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:45.840
they're very, very confident.

00:23:45.840 --> 00:23:49.265
We'll literally there's some
of the things that we'll do,

00:23:49.265 --> 00:23:50.310
(chuckling)

00:23:50.310 --> 00:23:53.610
we'll ask them to,
"Okay, go to a Starbucks

00:23:53.610 --> 00:23:56.550
and ask if you could have a free coffee,"

00:23:56.550 --> 00:23:58.413
and just negotiate, see if you could.

00:24:00.090 --> 00:24:03.090
Or the things that you don't
normally negotiate for,

00:24:03.090 --> 00:24:05.310
say you're getting a massage or something,

00:24:05.310 --> 00:24:07.971
and they always charge, I don't know,

00:24:07.971 --> 00:24:12.259
$70 for a full hour,
going in there and saying,

00:24:12.259 --> 00:24:13.830
"I would love to get a massage,"

00:24:13.830 --> 00:24:14.707
or even just calling and say,

00:24:14.707 --> 00:24:16.293
"I'd love to get a massage.

00:24:17.190 --> 00:24:18.520
I do know that there are

00:24:20.370 --> 00:24:22.860
places that are offering
more affordable massages.

00:24:22.860 --> 00:24:24.990
Is there something that we could work out?

00:24:24.990 --> 00:24:27.000
I'd be comfortable with X, Y, Z amount."

00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:29.130
And obviously that would need to be true,

00:24:29.130 --> 00:24:31.590
but if the massage place
that you wanna go to

00:24:31.590 --> 00:24:33.078
has the best reviews,

00:24:33.078 --> 00:24:36.780
you would just be shocked
at the amount of money

00:24:36.780 --> 00:24:38.940
that is sitting there available,

00:24:38.940 --> 00:24:41.130
and most people are
just too afraid to ask.

00:24:41.130 --> 00:24:45.010
And so I think it's just about
developing that skill set

00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:48.840
through negotiating
more in your daily life.

00:24:48.840 --> 00:24:51.030
And then it becomes a gain.

00:24:51.030 --> 00:24:54.210
I love negotiating.

00:24:54.210 --> 00:24:55.590
I'm not kidding you,

00:24:55.590 --> 00:24:58.680
I find so much enjoyment out of it,

00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:01.200
and I do think that you can create

00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:05.370
some amazing win-win
situations within negotiating,

00:25:05.370 --> 00:25:07.662
if you really are thinking,

00:25:07.662 --> 00:25:10.918
what is the solution that
we can create that benefits

00:25:10.918 --> 00:25:14.523
the person on the other
end, as well as me.

00:25:15.497 --> 00:25:19.320
And also as long as you're
thinking through your BATNA,

00:25:19.320 --> 00:25:23.431
which is your "Best Alternative
to a Negotiation Agreement,"

00:25:23.431 --> 00:25:26.280
which is essentially your backup plan,

00:25:26.280 --> 00:25:28.260
you need to always have
kind of a backup plan,

00:25:28.260 --> 00:25:31.710
that is really pretty
great and developing that.

00:25:31.710 --> 00:25:34.188
I know there's like a lot there, but.

00:25:34.188 --> 00:25:35.940
(laughs)

00:25:35.940 --> 00:25:38.550
- Well there is, but there's
some recurring themes here.

00:25:38.550 --> 00:25:41.400
All right, you've already shared your jar

00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:42.840
with the coffee beans,

00:25:42.840 --> 00:25:45.930
and you said that sometimes
you challenge them

00:25:45.930 --> 00:25:48.600
when those coffee beans
get to a certain level,

00:25:48.600 --> 00:25:51.480
then go reward yourself with a massage,

00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:53.640
but no sooner are they
about to reward themselves

00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:54.600
with a massage,

00:25:54.600 --> 00:25:56.850
you're gonna challenge
them to go negotiate

00:25:56.850 --> 00:25:59.103
the price of that massage.
(chuckling)

00:25:59.103 --> 00:26:01.590
So I love though, I think
the term is recursiveness

00:26:01.590 --> 00:26:02.760
in all of that.

00:26:02.760 --> 00:26:07.110
It does fit together
and through repetition,

00:26:07.110 --> 00:26:09.093
you are getting,

00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:12.210
it's just a number of reps,

00:26:12.210 --> 00:26:15.300
and the more you do it, the
more comfortable you may be,

00:26:15.300 --> 00:26:18.303
the more skilled you will be with it.

00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:24.140
Mia, as you reflect on what you do

00:26:24.570 --> 00:26:26.940
and who you encounter.

00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:29.380
Can you share an example where perhaps you

00:26:30.267 --> 00:26:31.560
or a client got stuck

00:26:31.560 --> 00:26:33.603
and what did it take to get unstuck?

00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:36.630
- Yeah, that's a really great question.

00:26:39.420 --> 00:26:44.420
So this is something that
happened to a client.

00:26:44.940 --> 00:26:48.720
It was about a year ago.

00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:53.073
And by the time that
this person came to me,

00:26:53.970 --> 00:26:57.600
they thought their situation was hopeless.

00:26:57.600 --> 00:27:00.240
They had applied to all of these companies

00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.060
and they weren't gaining any traction,

00:27:03.060 --> 00:27:06.630
and they were thinking that
something was wrong with them,

00:27:06.630 --> 00:27:09.783
which obviously was not true.

00:27:11.370 --> 00:27:14.580
And so one of the things that we did was,

00:27:14.580 --> 00:27:17.430
we looked at this person's resume

00:27:17.430 --> 00:27:20.460
'cause they were really
wanting to get a job

00:27:20.460 --> 00:27:22.920
that they were super passionate about

00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:24.693
and that they could
earn that salary amount

00:27:24.693 --> 00:27:26.520
that they were targeting.

00:27:26.520 --> 00:27:29.745
And so what we did was we created,

00:27:29.745 --> 00:27:31.740
so we actually do this within the program.

00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:33.576
It's called the Dream 25.

00:27:33.576 --> 00:27:38.576
And so you literally pick
out 25 different companies,

00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:41.793
and, you know, you start
it with just a couple.

00:27:42.779 --> 00:27:45.930
So you start with three and
you look at these companies,

00:27:45.930 --> 00:27:50.930
make sure that the company
itself has what you're desiring

00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:54.930
from a culture perspective,
maybe Glassdoor reviews,

00:27:54.930 --> 00:27:56.370
whatever's important to you.

00:27:56.370 --> 00:27:57.840
And then from a job perspective,

00:27:57.840 --> 00:27:59.130
you find that ideal job

00:27:59.130 --> 00:28:01.050
and you literally look
at the job description

00:28:01.050 --> 00:28:02.910
and then you look at your resume,

00:28:02.910 --> 00:28:05.820
and you go down line by
line at the job description

00:28:05.820 --> 00:28:07.038
and you say, "What have I done

00:28:07.038 --> 00:28:09.480
that is on this job description?"

00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:11.950
And then you make this synergy happen

00:28:13.172 --> 00:28:16.230
where your resume is like
this beautification has a lot

00:28:16.230 --> 00:28:21.230
of the keywords from the
actual job description.

00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:24.150
And I will say that
there's a lot of companies

00:28:24.150 --> 00:28:26.790
that are really utilizing technology,

00:28:26.790 --> 00:28:31.170
that'll scan a resume and
pick out those keywords,

00:28:31.170 --> 00:28:33.783
and so that is also a way
that can get to the top.

00:28:34.806 --> 00:28:39.806
And so that's one of the things
that we did with this woman,

00:28:39.870 --> 00:28:42.570
which was really, really effective.

00:28:42.570 --> 00:28:45.090
And so it was cool, The Dream 25,

00:28:45.090 --> 00:28:48.660
we didn't have to get
to the full 25 places

00:28:48.660 --> 00:28:50.222
she had to apply to.

00:28:50.222 --> 00:28:52.440
I think it was right around number 10,

00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:54.840
that she landed that role,

00:28:54.840 --> 00:28:59.400
and it was because her
resume was so tailored

00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:00.540
to the job description,

00:29:00.540 --> 00:29:02.460
had everything that she was looking for.

00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:05.730
And I will say that what each person's

00:29:05.730 --> 00:29:08.640
kind of stock gap is, is different,

00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:11.760
'cause for her, when she got in the door,

00:29:11.760 --> 00:29:15.570
she was able to confidently
handle the interview,

00:29:15.570 --> 00:29:16.680
the negotiation.

00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:18.450
That part wasn't challenging for her.

00:29:18.450 --> 00:29:20.610
She just wasn't getting in the door.

00:29:20.610 --> 00:29:23.900
So it's truly is about,

00:29:23.900 --> 00:29:24.733
(chuckling)

00:29:24.733 --> 00:29:25.710
I feel so much like a doctor,

00:29:25.710 --> 00:29:26.880
my whole family's doctors,

00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:29.357
so I also thinking about medical terms,

00:29:29.357 --> 00:29:32.160
'cause you're like
constantly pinpointing, okay,

00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:33.780
where is this person struggling?

00:29:33.780 --> 00:29:36.150
And it is so different,

00:29:36.150 --> 00:29:38.880
but for her really just getting her resume

00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:41.910
looking fantastic and
having it be really tailored

00:29:41.910 --> 00:29:43.833
to her role is just hugely valuable.

00:29:44.670 --> 00:29:46.470
- That's a great example.

00:29:46.470 --> 00:29:49.530
We named this podcast "Get
Unstuck and On Target,"

00:29:49.530 --> 00:29:54.530
and I have been so surprised
by the variety of stories

00:29:54.660 --> 00:29:56.580
I'm hearing from our guest.

00:29:56.580 --> 00:29:59.010
Here's what I like about
what you just shared,

00:29:59.010 --> 00:30:03.420
is that this is a very capable person who,

00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:07.020
if you could just get her
beyond the sticking point,

00:30:07.020 --> 00:30:10.952
in this case, getting
in to an organization

00:30:10.952 --> 00:30:12.660
that's a good fit,

00:30:12.660 --> 00:30:15.750
for a position that
would utilize her skills,

00:30:15.750 --> 00:30:20.220
that if you could help
point her or point herself

00:30:20.220 --> 00:30:24.480
in the right direction, right
company, right opportunity,

00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:28.157
she had the self-confidence
to take it from there

00:30:28.157 --> 00:30:30.390
and just doing that,

00:30:30.390 --> 00:30:34.620
what could have required
25, only required 10,

00:30:34.620 --> 00:30:36.600
and she found what she's looking for.

00:30:36.600 --> 00:30:39.303
So I love that as an example.

00:30:40.290 --> 00:30:43.740
Mia, you could have
spoken on a huge variety

00:30:43.740 --> 00:30:45.240
of potential topics

00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:47.640
because of the role that you play

00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:50.070
and the company that you've founded.

00:30:50.070 --> 00:30:53.160
But as you kind of reflect
on our conversation,

00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:58.160
what do you want the listeners
to have as takeaways?

00:30:58.590 --> 00:31:00.723
- Yeah, that's a great question.

00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:05.220
I would say,

00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:09.000
reflect on what you
really want in your life

00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:14.000
and create a strategic action
plan of how you'll get there.

00:31:15.150 --> 00:31:18.121
And also when you're doing that,

00:31:18.121 --> 00:31:21.270
think through what are
the potential pitfalls

00:31:21.270 --> 00:31:24.150
that you'll run into along the way

00:31:24.150 --> 00:31:26.790
and come up with the if/thens, right?

00:31:26.790 --> 00:31:28.440
If this happens, then I'll do this.

00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:29.933
If this happens, then I'll do that,

00:31:29.933 --> 00:31:31.650
so that you're really prepared

00:31:31.650 --> 00:31:36.650
because as with all three
of the paths in our program,

00:31:37.620 --> 00:31:41.790
there are roadblocks that
you have to overcome,

00:31:41.790 --> 00:31:43.860
and the more that you are anticipating

00:31:43.860 --> 00:31:47.100
the potential roadblocks
and actually planning ahead

00:31:47.100 --> 00:31:51.390
and saying, "Okay, I know
that after this next step,

00:31:51.390 --> 00:31:56.390
there will be this step," in
the job interview example,

00:32:00.600 --> 00:32:03.330
they'll send me all the
job offer information.

00:32:03.330 --> 00:32:05.610
Is it still okay for me
to negotiate for more

00:32:05.610 --> 00:32:08.610
even if it didn't have
everything I was targeting,

00:32:08.610 --> 00:32:10.350
really thinking through

00:32:10.350 --> 00:32:12.510
what are all of those potential obstacles

00:32:12.510 --> 00:32:14.370
and solving them in advance,

00:32:14.370 --> 00:32:16.620
I've just found to work
really, really well.

00:32:16.620 --> 00:32:18.240
And then it also gives you more confidence

00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:21.690
because you know that there
are going to be problems,

00:32:21.690 --> 00:32:24.270
and you also know that you are confident

00:32:24.270 --> 00:32:25.410
and you are capable

00:32:25.410 --> 00:32:29.193
and you are prepared in
overcoming those problems.

00:32:31.320 --> 00:32:35.310
- Mia, you're clearly very
knowledgeable on this topic.

00:32:35.310 --> 00:32:39.150
You also very clearly have
a passion for this topic,

00:32:39.150 --> 00:32:41.256
and I'm confident there's
folks listening now

00:32:41.256 --> 00:32:42.900
who want to learn more.

00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:46.533
What's the best way for
them to reach out to you?

00:32:47.493 --> 00:32:49.910
- So go to The30Kprogram.com,

00:32:51.567 --> 00:32:55.839
and we do have a salary negotiation ebook

00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:59.430
that walks you through how to negotiate

00:32:59.430 --> 00:33:01.710
for a raise, or if
you're getting a new job,

00:33:01.710 --> 00:33:03.570
how to negotiate for that salary amount.

00:33:03.570 --> 00:33:05.400
And everything's listed out on there,

00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:08.790
we spend a lot of time on it, so enjoy.

00:33:08.790 --> 00:33:10.500
And it's also really
aesthetically appealing.

00:33:10.500 --> 00:33:12.061
We had a designer work on it.

00:33:12.061 --> 00:33:13.603
It's gorgeous, so.

00:33:13.603 --> 00:33:15.254
(laughing)

00:33:15.254 --> 00:33:16.087
- I love this.

00:33:16.087 --> 00:33:18.480
It's not only good
stuff, it looks good too.

00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:21.270
- I mean it needs to be
really appealing, right?

00:33:21.270 --> 00:33:23.100
Otherwise it's like, who
wants to look at something

00:33:23.100 --> 00:33:24.180
that looks disgusting.

00:33:24.180 --> 00:33:25.124
Not me, right?

00:33:25.124 --> 00:33:27.690
(Mike laughing)

00:33:27.690 --> 00:33:29.520
- Mia, this has been a lot of fun.

00:33:29.520 --> 00:33:30.693
Thank you so much.

00:33:31.860 --> 00:33:32.820
- Yeah. Thank you.

00:33:32.820 --> 00:33:33.999
It's been a delight.

00:33:33.999 --> 00:33:35.760
(chuckling)

00:33:35.760 --> 00:33:38.670
- Also wanna thank our
listeners for joining us today.

00:33:38.670 --> 00:33:40.890
We upload the latest
episode every Thursday

00:33:40.890 --> 00:33:44.790
to all the major platforms,
including Apple and Spotify.

00:33:44.790 --> 00:33:47.220
So if you've enjoyed
this episode with Mia,

00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:48.363
please subscribe.

00:33:49.560 --> 00:33:51.057
Are you trying to grow your business?

00:33:51.057 --> 00:33:53.490
And you wanna make sure
you've got the right people,

00:33:53.490 --> 00:33:57.120
processes, and planning systems
in place to grow smoothly?

00:33:57.120 --> 00:33:59.370
If yes, let's talk.

00:33:59.370 --> 00:34:03.656
Head over to unstuck.show
and schedule a quick,

00:34:03.656 --> 00:34:05.160
non-sales call with me.

00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:07.110
We'll talk about your growth goals,

00:34:07.110 --> 00:34:10.590
and I'll offer you some
practical, actionable advice

00:34:10.590 --> 00:34:12.780
to help you grow your business.

00:34:12.780 --> 00:34:14.565
So I wanna thank you for joining us,

00:34:14.565 --> 00:34:17.790
and I hope you have picked
up on some tips from Mia

00:34:17.790 --> 00:34:21.480
that will help you get
"Unstuck and On Target."

00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:22.313
Until next time.

00:34:22.313 --> 00:34:24.955
(pleasant music)