Episode 88: There Is Life After Failure with Jim Swan

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(bright music)

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- Welcome back to the Get
Unstuck and On Target podcast.

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I'm Mike O'Niell with Bench Builders

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and we help growing companies,
especially manufacturers,

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improve their people,
process and planning systems

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so they can scale smarter and faster.

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Joining me today from
Portland Maine is Jim Swan.

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Jim is a Personal Development Coach

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who is here to stress that
there is life after failure.

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After struggling through

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a series of catastrophic
professional and personal failures,

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Jim was certified as a coach

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and he launched James Swan Coaching.

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He coaches high achieving
business owners and entrepreneurs

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to turn pain into fuel,

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mistakes into opportunities
and dreams into initiatives.

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Welcome Jim.

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- Thank you, Mike.

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It's great to be here with you today.

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- Jim, prior we decided we're
going to entitle this podcast,

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that there is life after failure.

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And for those who go to your website,

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they kinda read about your story.

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May we just kinda go ahead
and set the stage and that is,

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you have found ways to take failure

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and it has really changed
your entire trajectory.

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Would you mind kinda walking through

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our viewers and listeners

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a little bit about that journey, please.

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- Be happy to Mike.

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Be happy to.

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Thank you for the invitation to be here

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and to speak with you today.

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The story is messy at
best, painful at worst,

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but the good news about it
is that it's in the past

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and it doesn't define me today.

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I've learned innumerable lessons.

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I continue to learn lessons
as we all do in life.

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I think the shift that has happened for me

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over the last five-ish years

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is coming to terms with the idea

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that I don't have to be
afraid of my failures,

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that I can embrace them, learn from them,

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create a new plan for forward motion

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and then I can create a future,

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in my instance, a future
that I never dreamt of

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and a future that is bigger and brighter

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and more fulfilling than anything

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that I have ever experienced before.

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And really I think the end of the day,

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beyond anything that I even imagined.

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So yeah, its starts with, I guess

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the first phase of it starts
with a business failure

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in Los Angeles back in 2008-2009,

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when the economy tanked,
my business tanked.

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And because I had done
what many people did

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and that was leverage personal assets,

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basically, put my house up,
took a second out on that.

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Two months later,

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when the real estate
bubble in Los Angeles burst

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that went away too and
I was left with nothing.

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And there was one,

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it was the wee hours of the morning,

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I found myself sitting on
top of the high rise building

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that I lived in with my
feet dangling over the edge

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trying to decide what the
next step was gonna be.

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And fortunately, I didn't
take that final step

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at that moment.

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I had two dogs that were
running around behind me,

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two little dogs and I like to say

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that they saved my life that night,

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'cause they gave me a
reason for climbing down

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off of that roof.

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And then I began a slog.

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It was almost a 10 year slog, Mike,

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trying to recover from that failure,

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which in the moment I never really did.

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And I stumbled into a couple
of different businesses.

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And at one point I landed on
the idea of creating a podcast,

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not unlike what you're doing,

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and I dove into it with a vengeance

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and I still had contacts
in my then industry

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and had an amazing time,

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almost three years of building a podcast

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that turned out to be very successful.

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And I really felt in that moment

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that I had sort of found my place.

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But while all of that was
going on, I was again,

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still sort of struggling financially

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because of course nobody gets
rich off of doing podcasting.

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And so I was taking the
occasional consulting job.

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And just to make a long
story slightly shorter,

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I screwed up, I
misappropriated clients' money.

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I used it in a way that
was not appropriate,

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was not the way that we had
agreed that it would be used.

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I did it.

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That was a combination of ignorance

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because I've never been good with money

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and I've never really
paid attention to them,

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I always had people in place to do that.

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And at this point it was just me.

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There was nobody to rely
on and I fumbled the ball.

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When I discovered what I had done

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or when I realized what I had done,

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I panicked, scrambled a little bit

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thinking of how I can recoup from this,

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I can get the money back together
and no one will ever know.

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And then when I realized
that wasn't going to happen,

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I went to the client and I said,

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this is what has happened
and these are my plans.

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I'm gonna pay this back,
which I began right away.

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And during that payback process,

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they felt for reasons that I,

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well, they certainly never shared with me,

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but they felt that it was important

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to go to a local news station

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and tell the story about what happened.

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And that ended up on the evening news,

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which of course means it
landed on the internet.

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And within 48 hours,
the podcast went away,

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the syndication deal went away,

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the 600 guests that had
been on the podcast,

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I sort of became persona
non grata to all of them,

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and a 16 plus year career in an industry

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that I loved evaporated
and left me with nothing.

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I was at that point or shortly thereafter,

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I found myself sleeping on
friends sofas up here in Maine,

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really, really hit a rock bottom.

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I thought the rock bottom was

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when I'd lost the business in Los Angeles,

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but this was rock bottom.

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And it was over the
course of the next months

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and really almost two and a
half years into the process,

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I was gifted a coaching
session by a friend,

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one of the few people that had stuck by me

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during those very dark times.

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And he said, "I don't
know if this will help,

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"but you seem to be floundering

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"and this has helped me."

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So I jumped onto this call,
not knowing what to expect.

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And while it didn't
solve all the problems,

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it wasn't a miraculous wave the wand

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but I came out of that 90 minute session

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for the first time in many, many years,

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believing that there was a
light at the end of the tunnel,

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that there was a glimmer of hope

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and that if I really buckled down

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and learned the lessons that the universe

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was not so gently asking me to learn

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that maybe there was a future for me

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that didn't involve hiding,

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that didn't involve being
ashamed of who I was,

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being ashamed of my past,

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being ashamed of what
I brought to the table.

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And I dove into that as I tend to,

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with things in my life.

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I did it with a podcast.

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I dove in with a vengeance.

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I did a daily podcast
for over three years.

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You know what's involved
in recording podcast, Mike,

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so do the math on that.

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It was all consuming and I
loved every minute of it.

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And I took that same
energy and I poured it into

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what I now call my recovery period

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where I learned how to
recover from my failure.

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In looking back on it and reflecting on it

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and writing a lot about
it for my personal use

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I discovered that there were
phases that I went through,

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there were steps that I stumbled into

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as I regained my life
or took my life back.

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And I see now that those
steps were leading somewhere

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and they were leading me to a place

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where I could once again,

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connect with a dream and a vision

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of what my future might be.

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I had stopped allowing myself to do that

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and I reconnected with that.

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And I began to say, "Well, what if..."

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"What would it look like if I did this?

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"And what would life
look like if I did that?"

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And doors began to open and
connections began to be made.

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And I found myself in a
coaching licensing program.

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And here I sit today talking
about my work as a coach,

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I'm working with executives
literally across the country.

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And in a couple of
instances around the world,

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growing a coaching
practice where every day

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I get to help people who
like I have stumbled in life

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and it can be any...

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At the end of the day,
Mike, we've all failed.

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Whether it's having
that donut this morning,

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that you swore you weren't going to have,

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because you were gonna
lose those 10 pounds,

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or maybe it's a relationship
that's gone sideways

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and we found ourself in a divorce court

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or maybe a business has failed or...

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The list is long and we all know

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what those moments feel like.

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Nobody wants to talk about it,

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which I understand because

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there's a lot of shame
involved in admitting

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that we've failed at something.

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And yet there is also a lot of freedom

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that can come in investing in the process

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of dealing with the failure

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and then charting a course

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for what the future might look like.

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So I'm here to tell people today

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that there is life after failure.

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- Jim, you mentioned a moment ago

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that we don't wanna talk about it.

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And that's in large part why I was drawn

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to have you as a guest on this podcast.

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And that is, not only your
willingness to talk about it,

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but the expertise that you have developed

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as a coach to help your
clients do just that.

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And there's aspects of your story

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that I'm hearing for the first time.

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As I was listening to you share

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and I know you left lots of details out,

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but it sounds to me
that you have experience

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the highest of highs
and the lowest of lows.

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And you mentioned LA in
typical Hollywood fashion,

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we have a tendency sometimes

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to kinda make it real simple.

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Someone hits a setback and they buckle up

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and they kinda climb out of
it and it's a success story.

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What you've shared with us
is a major business failure

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that you thought was
the worst of the worst,

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but that set in motion, I love
this word, a 10 year slog.

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Gosh, that is a four letter word

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that almost tells it all.

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When you use the word slog,
what does that feel like?

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What does that mean to you?

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What was your experience
during those 10 years?

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- Good question, Mike.

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The experience felt like,
as I think back on it now.

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So my grandfather, a very
wise man who unfortunately

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is not with us anymore,

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he used to have a term that
he shared with us as kids,

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when someone would talk
about being in a rut,

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he would describe a rut as being a grave

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with the ends knocked out.

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So if you take that image and you overlay

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on top of it muddy ground,

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so a grave with the end knocked out

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and knee deep in mud, that's
what the slog felt like to me.

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So for 10 years in muddy, muddy terrain

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up to my knees sometimes deeper.

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I was trying to make
my way out of this rut

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that I had found myself in.

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And the rut was that I
was a worthless failure,

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that this mistake that I had made,

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this failure, this
business that I had lost,

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or fill in the blank, we
can all fill in that blank

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and it can be on a ginormous
catastrophic scale,

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or it can be on a relatively small scale.

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But the funny thing about failure is,

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it all feels the same in the moment.

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We all feel like we are less than,

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that we aren't worthy of,

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that there's nothing good

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that can come out of anything that we do.

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And that was the grave
with the ends knocked out

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knee deep in mud that I found myself in.

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And that I stayed in, not out of choice,

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but because I didn't know any better,

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I didn't know how to get out of it.

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And I think that's what..

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Well, correct that, I know
that's what motivates me today

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in the work that I'm doing as a coach.

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I came across the journal entry

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that I had made in one of my darkest hours

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after the podcast had gone away

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and after I had been publicly shamed

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and humiliated ostracized,

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persona non grata from an industry

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that I had been deeply involved in.

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And I was writing one night

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and I just over and over and over, I wrote

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if I could just talk to someone

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who could understand
what I'm going through,

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could have some point of reference.

00:14:16.740 --> 00:14:19.613
Not to save me, not to cure it, not...

00:14:19.613 --> 00:14:21.900
I just, I needed to talk to someone

00:14:21.900 --> 00:14:24.543
who got what the pain feels like.

00:14:25.560 --> 00:14:27.840
And at that moment, I didn't
have anyone in my life

00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:29.940
and so I just logged on.

00:14:29.940 --> 00:14:34.940
And so I approach this coaching experience

00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:37.830
that I'm now involved in as my opportunity

00:14:37.830 --> 00:14:41.163
to be that person for another human being.

00:14:42.540 --> 00:14:45.000
The thing I love so much about coaching

00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:47.654
is that it is a one-on-one experience.

00:14:47.654 --> 00:14:51.123
It's in real time, it's one
human being with another.

00:14:52.050 --> 00:14:54.060
In a pre COVID world, it might even happen

00:14:54.060 --> 00:14:58.410
in the same room, but here
we are in a post COVID world

00:14:58.410 --> 00:15:00.810
and we're using technology
and it allows us

00:15:00.810 --> 00:15:03.780
to connect with people
wherever they happen to be.

00:15:03.780 --> 00:15:05.760
But nonetheless, it's one on one

00:15:05.760 --> 00:15:09.420
and it's me showing up and being present.

00:15:09.420 --> 00:15:11.070
And whether I say it out loud

00:15:11.070 --> 00:15:14.790
or whether it's just
implied by my presence,

00:15:14.790 --> 00:15:18.300
I'm there because I know the pain

00:15:18.300 --> 00:15:19.740
that has been experienced

00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:22.830
by the person on the
other end of that line.

00:15:22.830 --> 00:15:23.790
I know what that feels like.

00:15:23.790 --> 00:15:26.250
I know what it feels like to
lay your head down on a pillow

00:15:26.250 --> 00:15:31.250
every night and not feel
like you are worthy enough

00:15:31.920 --> 00:15:34.620
to wake up to a bright future.

00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:37.563
And my mission now today is to say

00:15:37.563 --> 00:15:40.140
that that doesn't have to be the case,

00:15:40.140 --> 00:15:43.020
that there are active
things that you can do

00:15:43.020 --> 00:15:47.610
to move yourself out of that muck and mire

00:15:47.610 --> 00:15:52.000
and into a new life that can be

00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:56.403
so far beyond anything that
you could have imagined.

00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:59.500
So, yeah, there is life after failure.

00:16:00.660 --> 00:16:02.520
- For those who are listening,

00:16:02.520 --> 00:16:04.440
they probably picked up on this,

00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.790
but most definitely those who
are watching this via YouTube,

00:16:08.790 --> 00:16:13.790
when you transitioned to begin
talking about your future,

00:16:13.950 --> 00:16:17.430
you just lit up, you started smiling

00:16:17.430 --> 00:16:21.270
and you're talking about
a serious rollercoaster

00:16:21.270 --> 00:16:26.270
that you are on that
essentially everybody is on.

00:16:26.910 --> 00:16:30.960
You have described hitting

00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:32.850
what you thought was rock bottom,

00:16:32.850 --> 00:16:37.200
to have to do that yet again
and what is it you have to do.

00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:40.110
And that what you
discovered in the process

00:16:40.110 --> 00:16:43.530
is that at least one person stuck by you.

00:16:43.530 --> 00:16:44.363
- Yeah.

00:16:44.363 --> 00:16:46.020
- And I don't know if
the same person or not,

00:16:46.020 --> 00:16:50.250
but someone gifted you just a gift

00:16:50.250 --> 00:16:52.023
of a coaching session.

00:16:52.890 --> 00:16:55.350
My interest in inviting you as a guest,

00:16:55.350 --> 00:16:58.140
as you know Jim, I too coach,

00:16:58.140 --> 00:17:03.140
and I don't have the experience
to the depth that you do.

00:17:05.280 --> 00:17:08.310
When you're working with clients

00:17:08.310 --> 00:17:12.330
can people just sense that in you,

00:17:12.330 --> 00:17:14.970
that you have been
there, you've done that.

00:17:14.970 --> 00:17:19.290
Is there something almost unsaid

00:17:19.290 --> 00:17:21.333
in your interactions with your clients?

00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:23.753
- Wow!

00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:27.603
I hope so.

00:17:29.700 --> 00:17:31.890
I hope that they're...

00:17:31.890 --> 00:17:34.380
Whether it's through
Zoom or over the phone

00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:37.800
or on the odd chance that
we're in a room together.

00:17:37.800 --> 00:17:41.010
Actually I think face to
face in a room together

00:17:41.010 --> 00:17:42.420
I think it becomes a little easier

00:17:42.420 --> 00:17:46.590
because I think I can communicate
through body language,

00:17:46.590 --> 00:17:49.219
a certain degree of empathy

00:17:49.219 --> 00:17:52.833
that I think is a foundation
of the work that I do.

00:17:54.330 --> 00:17:58.290
I hope that it can come
across, I believe it does,

00:17:58.290 --> 00:18:02.460
I certainly hope it comes
across in a Zoom communication

00:18:02.460 --> 00:18:05.670
like we're experiencing
today or over the phone.

00:18:05.670 --> 00:18:09.330
So I believe so.

00:18:09.330 --> 00:18:14.330
I hear people, whether it
was just out and about,

00:18:17.610 --> 00:18:20.790
I have overheard in my coaching training

00:18:20.790 --> 00:18:24.249
because we do test sessions,

00:18:24.249 --> 00:18:27.570
educational sessions where
we're coaching peers,

00:18:27.570 --> 00:18:30.150
and I've heard people share stories

00:18:30.150 --> 00:18:33.750
about painful moments in their life

00:18:33.750 --> 00:18:37.680
and I've watched the
person filling the role

00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:40.680
as coach in that moment gloss over things

00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:42.360
that I would never have glossed over.

00:18:42.360 --> 00:18:45.900
So I do think that there's a sensitivity

00:18:45.900 --> 00:18:49.980
and certainly an empathy
that I bring to the table

00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:53.343
that I hope distinguishes
interactions with me.

00:18:54.570 --> 00:18:58.380
- In many respects as you
describe, prior roles,

00:18:58.380 --> 00:19:02.730
you were a business
owner and entrepreneur,

00:19:02.730 --> 00:19:04.890
and I know that you particularly work

00:19:04.890 --> 00:19:09.690
with high achieving business
owners and entrepreneurs.

00:19:09.690 --> 00:19:12.270
When I add that descriptive phrase,

00:19:12.270 --> 00:19:15.390
high achieving business owner

00:19:15.390 --> 00:19:18.360
or high achieving entrepreneurs,

00:19:18.360 --> 00:19:22.650
how does failure affect someone

00:19:22.650 --> 00:19:25.893
who might have been accustomed
to high achievement?

00:19:28.230 --> 00:19:29.530
- That's a great question.

00:19:33.510 --> 00:19:36.110
I think in some ways...

00:19:38.010 --> 00:19:40.080
I was going to say that it's more painful,

00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:41.850
but I don't think that's correct.

00:19:41.850 --> 00:19:46.850
I think a failure for someone
who is used to flying high,

00:19:46.950 --> 00:19:50.430
used to achieving great things,

00:19:50.430 --> 00:19:55.170
I think it's startling and shocking

00:19:55.170 --> 00:20:00.090
in a way that is so out of the norm

00:20:00.090 --> 00:20:02.550
of their life experience,

00:20:02.550 --> 00:20:06.000
particularly if there's
been a series of successes

00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:06.900
through their life,

00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:08.250
that if that's all they've ever known

00:20:08.250 --> 00:20:11.520
and then suddenly to be
thrown the monkey ranch

00:20:11.520 --> 00:20:16.520
of this big failure whatever
and however one defines that,

00:20:18.690 --> 00:20:22.680
I think the shock of that
can be so disorienting

00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:25.533
that for many of the
people that I work with,

00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:29.760
they're so knocked off balance

00:20:29.760 --> 00:20:32.280
that finding that place of balance again,

00:20:32.280 --> 00:20:37.280
seems an impossibility
despite their past successes.

00:20:37.800 --> 00:20:42.450
In some ways, it just feels

00:20:42.450 --> 00:20:44.200
a little more out of reach to them.

00:20:46.320 --> 00:20:48.600
Now the flip side to
that is that the correct

00:20:48.600 --> 00:20:52.080
can often be remarkably fast.

00:20:52.080 --> 00:20:56.130
Because for many high achieving people,

00:20:56.130 --> 00:21:01.130
they understand the principles
of learning from others,

00:21:02.580 --> 00:21:06.000
mirroring others' experiences
that will lead them

00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.420
to a goal that they've set out to achieve.

00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:13.143
And so when they're given,
okay, step A, step B, step C,

00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:16.980
they hit step A, they're
ready to move on to step B,

00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:21.330
onto step C and suddenly things
are very different for them.

00:21:21.330 --> 00:21:24.960
And so once they're able
to unleash that energy

00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:26.433
that they've been used to,

00:21:26.433 --> 00:21:28.920
that has been derailed to some extent

00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:33.920
by this setback or failure,
the recovery period...

00:21:35.452 --> 00:21:37.260
I remember reading an
article a number of years ago

00:21:37.260 --> 00:21:41.910
about athletes who train and
what they're training for

00:21:41.910 --> 00:21:43.560
in this particular instance

00:21:43.560 --> 00:21:46.800
was to shorten their recovery period.

00:21:46.800 --> 00:21:50.880
To run a mile without any training

00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:54.060
and your recovery period is
going to be X number of minutes

00:21:54.060 --> 00:21:56.430
before your heart rate
can return to normal.

00:21:56.430 --> 00:21:57.540
And once you've trained them

00:21:57.540 --> 00:21:59.520
for a number of weeks or months,

00:21:59.520 --> 00:22:02.520
that recovery period
becomes much, much shorter

00:22:02.520 --> 00:22:03.990
and thus you are in better shape

00:22:03.990 --> 00:22:05.730
and more prepared for that challenge.

00:22:05.730 --> 00:22:07.840
And I'd like to think that that's what

00:22:09.030 --> 00:22:11.280
the people that I'm fortunate to work with

00:22:11.280 --> 00:22:12.660
bring to the table.

00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:14.370
They bring to the table and understanding

00:22:14.370 --> 00:22:16.710
of what that training means,

00:22:16.710 --> 00:22:18.540
of what hitting those training sessions

00:22:18.540 --> 00:22:21.270
or doing the work means

00:22:21.270 --> 00:22:24.240
to reduce the time that
it takes to recover

00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:26.520
and to move into that next chapter.

00:22:26.520 --> 00:22:27.540
Does that make sense?

00:22:27.540 --> 00:22:28.410
- It makes perfect sense.

00:22:28.410 --> 00:22:29.970
And I'm glad you brought that up

00:22:29.970 --> 00:22:32.940
because though your personal experience

00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:34.980
was one in which there were,

00:22:34.980 --> 00:22:38.460
the lows were over a long period of time,

00:22:38.460 --> 00:22:42.120
what I'm hearing you say is
the nature of your coaching,

00:22:42.120 --> 00:22:44.460
what you've been
specifically trained to do,

00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:47.580
and where you're focusing on is that,

00:22:47.580 --> 00:22:52.580
it doesn't necessarily mean it
has to be a long term trough.

00:22:52.980 --> 00:22:53.813
- Exactly.

00:22:53.813 --> 00:22:55.920
- And that a high achieving person,

00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:58.110
one of the things they seem to have

00:22:58.110 --> 00:23:00.903
is the ability to kinda shake things off.

00:23:01.980 --> 00:23:05.013
Meaning, something happens, good,

00:23:06.030 --> 00:23:09.003
they kinda shake it off and
say all right, what's next?

00:23:09.990 --> 00:23:11.730
But if they have the equal ability,

00:23:11.730 --> 00:23:15.420
when something bad
happens to basically say,

00:23:15.420 --> 00:23:18.030
it happened and to shake it off,

00:23:18.030 --> 00:23:22.710
what I'm hearing is that
you can help leaders

00:23:22.710 --> 00:23:24.480
potentially shake these things off

00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:28.320
by quickly and appropriately
addressing the issues

00:23:28.320 --> 00:23:29.400
that need to be addressed.

00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:31.020
Does that comment make sense?

00:23:31.020 --> 00:23:34.300
- It does Mike, but I would underscore

00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:36.775
maybe something that you said

00:23:36.775 --> 00:23:40.800
and that is that they have
dealt with the real issue.

00:23:40.800 --> 00:23:45.330
Because just sort of acknowledging
that something happened

00:23:45.330 --> 00:23:48.510
and moving on, doesn't always equate

00:23:48.510 --> 00:23:51.393
into dealing with the underlying issues.

00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:56.103
When failure happens
there's always a reason.

00:23:57.420 --> 00:23:59.070
There's always a reason.

00:23:59.070 --> 00:24:02.080
Whether we are willing to honestly

00:24:03.090 --> 00:24:07.473
look at what the real reason
is, own our part in it.

00:24:08.490 --> 00:24:13.490
Not deny, not deflect, not
ignore, not deny, I said that,

00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:17.100
and take ownership of our part.

00:24:17.100 --> 00:24:18.720
Yes, maybe others participated,

00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:23.070
but we only can control
our part in any situation.

00:24:23.070 --> 00:24:25.020
So owning that,

00:24:25.020 --> 00:24:27.753
and then applying the
principles of recovery,

00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:31.980
that's the difference.

00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:33.903
Just acknowledging that it happened.

00:24:35.520 --> 00:24:38.040
I mean, one could build a case
that you're doing nothing,

00:24:38.040 --> 00:24:41.400
but just sort of burying it

00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:44.760
without actually addressing

00:24:44.760 --> 00:24:47.760
and solving the underlying issue.

00:24:47.760 --> 00:24:48.780
That make sense?

00:24:48.780 --> 00:24:50.100
- I'm glad you clarified.

00:24:50.100 --> 00:24:51.000
- Yeah.
- Because

00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:55.578
when I say move on,

00:24:55.578 --> 00:24:58.620
that could be another
phrase for bury in it.

00:24:58.620 --> 00:25:02.250
And if one is not willing to understand

00:25:02.250 --> 00:25:06.600
and own what may be that root cause

00:25:06.600 --> 00:25:08.880
then they're perhaps doomed to repeat

00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:11.070
that exact same thing again.

00:25:11.070 --> 00:25:11.903
- Yeah.

00:25:11.903 --> 00:25:14.010
- You know, Jim, I typically ask guests

00:25:14.010 --> 00:25:19.010
to share an example where either
they or a client got stuck

00:25:19.235 --> 00:25:22.410
and what did it take to get unstuck?

00:25:22.410 --> 00:25:25.200
I mean, this whole conversation

00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:28.060
kinda fits that description to the tee

00:25:29.310 --> 00:25:33.780
and that is you are sharing
your personal experience

00:25:33.780 --> 00:25:36.492
and how you are using
those personal experiences

00:25:36.492 --> 00:25:41.230
and that training to help
others who may be dealing

00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:44.190
with the same thing.

00:25:44.190 --> 00:25:46.740
You mentioned root causes.

00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:49.740
And this is a maybe
unfair question to ask,

00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:53.760
but when you're dealing with
highly successful people

00:25:53.760 --> 00:25:57.870
who are dealing with a
setback of some sort,

00:25:57.870 --> 00:26:00.780
and they begin to better understand

00:26:00.780 --> 00:26:02.940
what might be that root cause,

00:26:02.940 --> 00:26:07.940
they might begin to own their role in it

00:26:08.010 --> 00:26:12.240
and going forward, do you
see any patterns emerge

00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:14.790
as to what might be root causes

00:26:14.790 --> 00:26:16.263
or is it all over the board?

00:26:20.610 --> 00:26:22.263
- I think in general, Mike,

00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:28.640
I think the root causes are
as unique as each individual.

00:26:30.930 --> 00:26:33.030
I mean, I suppose there
are probably categories

00:26:33.030 --> 00:26:35.700
if we wanted to really do the research

00:26:35.700 --> 00:26:38.880
and start identifying things.

00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:43.860
Communication is a big category.

00:26:43.860 --> 00:26:46.290
Failures of communication can take us

00:26:46.290 --> 00:26:50.493
into some really dark places
that we don't wanna go to.

00:26:52.050 --> 00:26:53.370
Ignorance.

00:26:53.370 --> 00:26:56.700
For me I never had been

00:26:56.700 --> 00:27:00.780
and I have never claimed
to be a whiz with numbers

00:27:00.780 --> 00:27:02.100
or a whiz with money.

00:27:02.100 --> 00:27:03.780
In fact, when I had my business,

00:27:03.780 --> 00:27:05.820
the joke around the office
was if it involves numbers,

00:27:05.820 --> 00:27:06.840
just keep it away from Jim,

00:27:06.840 --> 00:27:10.233
because it's a disaster waiting to happen.

00:27:13.170 --> 00:27:16.710
When I look back on that, I
realize that I was making light

00:27:16.710 --> 00:27:20.610
of my own ignorance.

00:27:20.610 --> 00:27:21.900
And maybe to some degree...

00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:24.900
I mean, maybe I would
never be a mathematic whiz

00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:27.450
but I again, looking back on things,

00:27:27.450 --> 00:27:29.670
I realized that I could
have educated myself

00:27:29.670 --> 00:27:33.540
in a way that would've better prepared me

00:27:33.540 --> 00:27:36.780
to handle a situation
that I didn't handle well

00:27:36.780 --> 00:27:40.290
and that caused a lot of
pain and a lot of sorrow

00:27:40.290 --> 00:27:42.333
for myself and for many other people.

00:27:43.764 --> 00:27:46.893
So ignorance is another category.

00:27:50.820 --> 00:27:53.400
Goodness, you kind of
put me on the spot here.

00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:57.000
But I mean, this is a really
interesting conversation.

00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.730
I would say that there
are broad categories

00:27:59.730 --> 00:28:02.010
that things fall into for people,

00:28:02.010 --> 00:28:07.010
but everyone is a little unique.

00:28:07.470 --> 00:28:10.220
Everyone would be a little
unique in that regard, yeah.

00:28:11.520 --> 00:28:12.930
- Jim, I've already commented to you

00:28:12.930 --> 00:28:14.280
before we hit the record button

00:28:14.280 --> 00:28:18.120
how much I enjoy reading your website

00:28:18.120 --> 00:28:22.590
because it clearly is
not written by someone

00:28:22.590 --> 00:28:25.590
who doesn't know it's clearly got you

00:28:25.590 --> 00:28:28.473
and your fingerprints all over it.

00:28:29.430 --> 00:28:32.820
I'm gonna just read this
because it spoke to me

00:28:32.820 --> 00:28:36.450
and it kinda also speaks
to, as we kind of wrap up,

00:28:36.450 --> 00:28:40.740
I wanna give you a chance to reflect on.

00:28:40.740 --> 00:28:42.750
So what I'll do I wanna hold off

00:28:42.750 --> 00:28:45.350
before I read from your
website, invite you...

00:28:46.470 --> 00:28:48.840
As you kinda look at our conversation,

00:28:48.840 --> 00:28:50.700
some of the things we've talked about

00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:53.490
and you wanna make sure that our listeners

00:28:53.490 --> 00:28:56.010
really hear certain things.

00:28:56.010 --> 00:28:57.633
What are those takeaways?

00:29:00.120 --> 00:29:02.730
- I think the most important takeaway

00:29:02.730 --> 00:29:04.980
from any interaction
that I'm able to share

00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:09.690
with another person or
people is the idea that,

00:29:09.690 --> 00:29:12.360
and I've said it many times
and I repeat it regularly,

00:29:12.360 --> 00:29:14.160
there is life after failure.

00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:19.160
That whatever thing
you have stumbled over,

00:29:19.710 --> 00:29:21.330
whether it was falling off the wagon

00:29:21.330 --> 00:29:24.480
and you eating that donut
and blowing your diet,

00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:27.360
not getting to the gym
the way you regularly,

00:29:27.360 --> 00:29:31.200
the way you were
determined to regularly go,

00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:35.400
whether it's a relationship
that is tanking right now,

00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:38.880
and that you're feeling
guilt and shame over,

00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:43.050
whether it's a business
deal that has gone sideways

00:29:43.050 --> 00:29:45.090
or a business in its entirety

00:29:45.090 --> 00:29:48.630
that is going or has gone sideways,

00:29:48.630 --> 00:29:53.630
it doesn't matter, you're
not alone and there is hope.

00:29:54.630 --> 00:29:57.270
I think that would be
the double pronged thing

00:29:57.270 --> 00:29:58.740
that I would want to underscore.

00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:01.413
You're not alone and that there is hope.

00:30:03.060 --> 00:30:06.210
- For those out there
who might get that sense

00:30:06.210 --> 00:30:07.650
that they may be alone

00:30:07.650 --> 00:30:10.320
and maybe you are finding hope elusive,

00:30:10.320 --> 00:30:12.873
what's the best way for
people to reach out to you?

00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:19.160
- The easiest way to find me
is the website, james-swan.com.

00:30:22.410 --> 00:30:24.780
There's an easy contact form there,

00:30:24.780 --> 00:30:26.250
you can reach out there.

00:30:26.250 --> 00:30:28.893
I believe the phone
number is posted on there.

00:30:29.850 --> 00:30:34.140
Make a call, shoot me a
text, send me an email.

00:30:34.140 --> 00:30:37.050
It's jim@james-swan.com.

00:30:37.050 --> 00:30:38.280
Super easy.

00:30:38.280 --> 00:30:41.280
Don't forget the hyphen, the
dash in there is important.

00:30:41.280 --> 00:30:43.440
I couldn't get the James Swan URL,

00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:44.590
somebody beat me to it.

00:30:45.570 --> 00:30:50.570
But yeah, jim@james-swan.com
or the website, james-swan.com,

00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:53.940
that's the easiest place to find me.

00:30:53.940 --> 00:30:57.510
- We obviously will include
that in the show notes.

00:30:57.510 --> 00:30:59.370
We had the same issue with Bench Builders.

00:30:59.370 --> 00:31:04.053
We had to add the dash in
between to build a claim that.

00:31:05.100 --> 00:31:06.720
I would like to read this just

00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:08.640
because I just thought
this was so well written.

00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:13.020
This was kinda a call to
action from your website

00:31:13.020 --> 00:31:14.347
and it reads,

00:31:14.347 --> 00:31:16.717
"Are you ready to take the first step?

00:31:16.717 --> 00:31:20.047
"At this point, you can
follow one of two paths.

00:31:20.047 --> 00:31:22.957
"First, you can move on without
clicking the button below

00:31:22.957 --> 00:31:25.657
"and continuing doing
what you've always done,

00:31:25.657 --> 00:31:27.637
"and chances are, you'll continue getting

00:31:27.637 --> 00:31:29.217
"what you've always gotten."

00:31:30.067 --> 00:31:32.467
"You can continue to struggle
with your goals and dreams

00:31:32.467 --> 00:31:34.477
"and face the challenges alone,

00:31:34.477 --> 00:31:37.057
"or you can choose the second path.

00:31:37.057 --> 00:31:39.127
"You can choose to do something different

00:31:39.127 --> 00:31:42.307
"to stop trying to figure
this all out by yourself

00:31:42.307 --> 00:31:44.557
"and instead follow the lead of someone

00:31:44.557 --> 00:31:46.630
"who has already figured out how to help

00:31:47.467 --> 00:31:50.797
"achieve the things that you want badly.

00:31:50.797 --> 00:31:52.507
"You know where you'll be in a year,

00:31:52.507 --> 00:31:54.817
"if you choose to do nothing,

00:31:54.817 --> 00:31:58.237
"but there's no telling
how far you'll go in life

00:31:58.237 --> 00:32:00.967
"with an expert by your side guiding you

00:32:00.967 --> 00:32:03.487
"every step of the way.

00:32:03.487 --> 00:32:05.557
"If you're ready to change your life,

00:32:05.557 --> 00:32:08.047
"I invite you to choose the second path.

00:32:08.047 --> 00:32:11.047
"Click the button below
and take the first step

00:32:11.047 --> 00:32:13.887
"towards your best life ever."

00:32:14.760 --> 00:32:17.310
Jim, this is episode number 88,

00:32:17.310 --> 00:32:21.810
I've never quoted someone's
website up to this point.

00:32:21.810 --> 00:32:25.410
But those paragraphs just resonates you.

00:32:25.410 --> 00:32:28.410
If I'm reading it and I'm
now hearing the voice,

00:32:28.410 --> 00:32:31.890
I have a much clearer
sense of what you get

00:32:31.890 --> 00:32:34.590
when you reach out to Jim.

00:32:34.590 --> 00:32:39.270
So Jim, thank you for
sharing your perspective.

00:32:39.270 --> 00:32:41.610
Thank you for sharing your heart

00:32:41.610 --> 00:32:44.250
and thank you for making it clear

00:32:44.250 --> 00:32:46.020
to everyone who's listening,

00:32:46.020 --> 00:32:49.023
that there really is life after failure.

00:32:50.340 --> 00:32:51.173
- Thank you, Mike.

00:32:51.173 --> 00:32:52.006
It's been a pleasure.

00:32:53.910 --> 00:32:56.850
- I also wanna thank our
listeners for joining us today.

00:32:56.850 --> 00:32:59.760
We upload the latest
episode to Apple, Google,

00:32:59.760 --> 00:33:01.950
and Spotify every Thursday.

00:33:01.950 --> 00:33:05.160
So if you've enjoyed
this episode with Jim,

00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:06.363
please subscribe.

00:33:07.530 --> 00:33:10.920
Earlier, I shared that we
love helping companies,

00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:14.880
especially manufacturers
scale faster and smarter.

00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.340
So if you're ready to
solve those nagging people,

00:33:17.340 --> 00:33:19.020
process or planning problems

00:33:19.020 --> 00:33:21.360
that are slowing your company's growth.

00:33:21.360 --> 00:33:24.450
If that's the yes, let's
schedule quick call.

00:33:24.450 --> 00:33:29.160
You can go to our website,
bench-builders.com

00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:33.750
or simply type unstuck.show
in your browser.

00:33:33.750 --> 00:33:35.730
So I wanna thank you for joining us

00:33:35.730 --> 00:33:38.760
and I hope you have picked
up on some tips from Jim

00:33:38.760 --> 00:33:41.553
that will help you get
unstuck and on target.

00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:43.537
Until next time.

00:33:43.537 --> 00:33:46.120
(bright music)