August 18

Episode 88: There Is Life After Failure with Jim Swan

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Surviving failure’s darkest moments has prepared Jim Swan to coach those ready to leave the pain behind and launch into a new level of success, contentment, and happiness.

Jim Swan’s Biography

With over 15 years as a small business owner, entrepreneur, award-winning author, and marketing consultant James brings his experience as a survivor of success and failure to the world of business coaching and consulting.

Becoming an iPEC Certified Professional Coach codifies for James years of business experiences, a refined set of personal values, and a belief in the power of transformative coaching. He turned creative energy into a laser-focused
professional objective; to support business executives and entrepreneurs as they expand beyond setbacks and failures into their highest and best selves. He has a Bachelor of Arts degree in theology and music from Southwestern University in Waxahachie, Texas, and studied in Arizona State University’s Architecture and Design master’s degree program.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn…

How after struggling through a series of catastrophic professional & personal failures, Jim became certified as a Coach and launched James Swan Coaching. He coaches high-achieving business owners & entrepreneurs to turn pain into fuel, mistakes into opportunities, and dreams into initiatives.  

Quotables

  • The story is messy at best, painful at worst, but the good news about it is that it’s in the past and it doesn’t define me today.  – Jim Swan
  • I don’t have to be afraid of my failures, that I can embrace them, learn from them, create a new plan for forward motion, and then I can create a future, in my instance, a future that I never dreamt of and a future that is bigger and brighter and more fulfilling than anything that I have ever experienced before. – Jim Swan
  • While it didn’t solve all the problems, it wasn’t a miraculous wave of the wand, but I came out of that 90-minute session for the first time in many, many years, believing that there was a light at the end of the tunnel, that there was a glimmer of hope and that if I really buckled down and learned the lessons that the universe was not so gently asking me to learn that maybe there was a future for me that didn’t involve hiding, that didn’t involve being ashamed of who I was, being ashamed of my past, being ashamed of what I brought to the table. – Jim Swan

Links & Resources Mentioned…

Read The Transcript

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(bright music)

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- Welcome back to the Get
Unstuck and On Target podcast.

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I'm Mike O'Niell with Bench Builders

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and we help growing companies,
especially manufacturers,

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improve their people,
process and planning systems

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so they can scale smarter and faster.

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Joining me today from
Portland Maine is Jim Swan.

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Jim is a Personal Development Coach

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who is here to stress that
there is life after failure.

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After struggling through

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a series of catastrophic
professional and personal failures,

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Jim was certified as a coach

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and he launched James Swan Coaching.

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He coaches high achieving
business owners and entrepreneurs

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to turn pain into fuel,

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mistakes into opportunities
and dreams into initiatives.

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Welcome Jim.

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- Thank you, Mike.

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It's great to be here with you today.

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- Jim, prior we decided we're
going to entitle this podcast,

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that there is life after failure.

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And for those who go to your website,

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they kinda read about your story.

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May we just kinda go ahead
and set the stage and that is,

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you have found ways to take failure

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and it has really changed
your entire trajectory.

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Would you mind kinda walking through

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our viewers and listeners

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a little bit about that journey, please.

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- Be happy to Mike.

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Be happy to.

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Thank you for the invitation to be here

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and to speak with you today.

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The story is messy at
best, painful at worst,

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but the good news about it
is that it's in the past

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and it doesn't define me today.

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I've learned innumerable lessons.

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I continue to learn lessons
as we all do in life.

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I think the shift that has happened for me

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over the last five-ish years

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is coming to terms with the idea

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that I don't have to be
afraid of my failures,

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that I can embrace them, learn from them,

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create a new plan for forward motion

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and then I can create a future,

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in my instance, a future
that I never dreamt of

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and a future that is bigger and brighter

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and more fulfilling than anything

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that I have ever experienced before.

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And really I think the end of the day,

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beyond anything that I even imagined.

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So yeah, its starts with, I guess

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the first phase of it starts
with a business failure

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in Los Angeles back in 2008-2009,

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when the economy tanked,
my business tanked.

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And because I had done
what many people did

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and that was leverage personal assets,

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basically, put my house up,
took a second out on that.

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Two months later,

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when the real estate
bubble in Los Angeles burst

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that went away too and
I was left with nothing.

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And there was one,

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it was the wee hours of the morning,

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I found myself sitting on
top of the high rise building

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that I lived in with my
feet dangling over the edge

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trying to decide what the
next step was gonna be.

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And fortunately, I didn't
take that final step

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at that moment.

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I had two dogs that were
running around behind me,

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two little dogs and I like to say

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that they saved my life that night,

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'cause they gave me a
reason for climbing down

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off of that roof.

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And then I began a slog.

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It was almost a 10 year slog, Mike,

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trying to recover from that failure,

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which in the moment I never really did.

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And I stumbled into a couple
of different businesses.

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And at one point I landed on
the idea of creating a podcast,

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not unlike what you're doing,

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and I dove into it with a vengeance

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and I still had contacts
in my then industry

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and had an amazing time,

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almost three years of building a podcast

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that turned out to be very successful.

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And I really felt in that moment

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that I had sort of found my place.

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But while all of that was
going on, I was again,

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still sort of struggling financially

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because of course nobody gets
rich off of doing podcasting.

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And so I was taking the
occasional consulting job.

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And just to make a long
story slightly shorter,

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I screwed up, I
misappropriated clients' money.

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I used it in a way that
was not appropriate,

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was not the way that we had
agreed that it would be used.

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I did it.

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That was a combination of ignorance

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because I've never been good with money

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and I've never really
paid attention to them,

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I always had people in place to do that.

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And at this point it was just me.

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There was nobody to rely
on and I fumbled the ball.

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When I discovered what I had done

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or when I realized what I had done,

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I panicked, scrambled a little bit

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thinking of how I can recoup from this,

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I can get the money back together
and no one will ever know.

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And then when I realized
that wasn't going to happen,

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I went to the client and I said,

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this is what has happened
and these are my plans.

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I'm gonna pay this back,
which I began right away.

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And during that payback process,

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they felt for reasons that I,

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well, they certainly never shared with me,

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but they felt that it was important

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to go to a local news station

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and tell the story about what happened.

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And that ended up on the evening news,

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which of course means it
landed on the internet.

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And within 48 hours,
the podcast went away,

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the syndication deal went away,

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the 600 guests that had
been on the podcast,

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I sort of became persona
non grata to all of them,

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and a 16 plus year career in an industry

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that I loved evaporated
and left me with nothing.

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I was at that point or shortly thereafter,

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I found myself sleeping on
friends sofas up here in Maine,

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really, really hit a rock bottom.

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I thought the rock bottom was

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when I'd lost the business in Los Angeles,

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but this was rock bottom.

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And it was over the
course of the next months

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and really almost two and a
half years into the process,

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I was gifted a coaching
session by a friend,

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one of the few people that had stuck by me

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during those very dark times.

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And he said, "I don't
know if this will help,

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"but you seem to be floundering

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"and this has helped me."

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So I jumped onto this call,
not knowing what to expect.

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And while it didn't
solve all the problems,

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it wasn't a miraculous wave the wand

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but I came out of that 90 minute session

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for the first time in many, many years,

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believing that there was a
light at the end of the tunnel,

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that there was a glimmer of hope

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and that if I really buckled down

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and learned the lessons that the universe

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was not so gently asking me to learn

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that maybe there was a future for me

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that didn't involve hiding,

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that didn't involve being
ashamed of who I was,

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being ashamed of my past,

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being ashamed of what
I brought to the table.

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And I dove into that as I tend to,

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with things in my life.

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I did it with a podcast.

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I dove in with a vengeance.

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I did a daily podcast
for over three years.

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You know what's involved
in recording podcast, Mike,

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so do the math on that.

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It was all consuming and I
loved every minute of it.

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And I took that same
energy and I poured it into

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what I now call my recovery period

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where I learned how to
recover from my failure.

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In looking back on it and reflecting on it

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and writing a lot about
it for my personal use

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I discovered that there were
phases that I went through,

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there were steps that I stumbled into

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as I regained my life
or took my life back.

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And I see now that those
steps were leading somewhere

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and they were leading me to a place

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where I could once again,

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connect with a dream and a vision

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of what my future might be.

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I had stopped allowing myself to do that

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and I reconnected with that.

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And I began to say, "Well, what if..."

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"What would it look like if I did this?

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"And what would life
look like if I did that?"

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And doors began to open and
connections began to be made.

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And I found myself in a
coaching licensing program.

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And here I sit today talking
about my work as a coach,

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I'm working with executives
literally across the country.

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And in a couple of
instances around the world,

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growing a coaching
practice where every day

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I get to help people who
like I have stumbled in life

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and it can be any...

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At the end of the day,
Mike, we've all failed.

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Whether it's having
that donut this morning,

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that you swore you weren't going to have,

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because you were gonna
lose those 10 pounds,

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or maybe it's a relationship
that's gone sideways

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and we found ourself in a divorce court

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or maybe a business has failed or...

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The list is long and we all know

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what those moments feel like.

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Nobody wants to talk about it,

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which I understand because

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there's a lot of shame
involved in admitting

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that we've failed at something.

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And yet there is also a lot of freedom

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that can come in investing in the process

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of dealing with the failure

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and then charting a course

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for what the future might look like.

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So I'm here to tell people today

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that there is life after failure.

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- Jim, you mentioned a moment ago

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that we don't wanna talk about it.

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And that's in large part why I was drawn

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to have you as a guest on this podcast.

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And that is, not only your
willingness to talk about it,

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but the expertise that you have developed

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as a coach to help your
clients do just that.

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And there's aspects of your story

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that I'm hearing for the first time.

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As I was listening to you share

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and I know you left lots of details out,

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but it sounds to me
that you have experience

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the highest of highs
and the lowest of lows.

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And you mentioned LA in
typical Hollywood fashion,

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we have a tendency sometimes

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to kinda make it real simple.

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Someone hits a setback and they buckle up

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and they kinda climb out of
it and it's a success story.

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What you've shared with us
is a major business failure

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that you thought was
the worst of the worst,

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but that set in motion, I love
this word, a 10 year slog.

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Gosh, that is a four letter word

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that almost tells it all.

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When you use the word slog,
what does that feel like?

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What does that mean to you?

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What was your experience
during those 10 years?

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- Good question, Mike.

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The experience felt like,
as I think back on it now.

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So my grandfather, a very
wise man who unfortunately

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is not with us anymore,

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he used to have a term that
he shared with us as kids,

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when someone would talk
about being in a rut,

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he would describe a rut as being a grave

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with the ends knocked out.

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So if you take that image and you overlay

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on top of it muddy ground,

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so a grave with the end knocked out

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and knee deep in mud, that's
what the slog felt like to me.

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So for 10 years in muddy, muddy terrain

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up to my knees sometimes deeper.

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I was trying to make
my way out of this rut

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that I had found myself in.

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And the rut was that I
was a worthless failure,

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that this mistake that I had made,

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this failure, this
business that I had lost,

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or fill in the blank, we
can all fill in that blank

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and it can be on a ginormous
catastrophic scale,

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or it can be on a relatively small scale.

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But the funny thing about failure is,

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it all feels the same in the moment.

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We all feel like we are less than,

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that we aren't worthy of,

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that there's nothing good

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that can come out of anything that we do.

00:13:21.540 --> 00:13:24.840
And that was the grave
with the ends knocked out

00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:27.660
knee deep in mud that I found myself in.

00:13:27.660 --> 00:13:30.780
And that I stayed in, not out of choice,

00:13:30.780 --> 00:13:32.940
but because I didn't know any better,

00:13:32.940 --> 00:13:35.250
I didn't know how to get out of it.

00:13:35.250 --> 00:13:36.960
And I think that's what..

00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:41.960
Well, correct that, I know
that's what motivates me today

00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:45.243
in the work that I'm doing as a coach.

00:13:46.410 --> 00:13:48.690
I came across the journal entry

00:13:48.690 --> 00:13:51.670
that I had made in one of my darkest hours

00:13:52.710 --> 00:13:54.900
after the podcast had gone away

00:13:54.900 --> 00:13:57.270
and after I had been publicly shamed

00:13:57.270 --> 00:14:00.450
and humiliated ostracized,

00:14:00.450 --> 00:14:02.160
persona non grata from an industry

00:14:02.160 --> 00:14:03.910
that I had been deeply involved in.

00:14:06.090 --> 00:14:07.320
And I was writing one night

00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:09.600
and I just over and over and over, I wrote

00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.120
if I could just talk to someone

00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:14.760
who could understand
what I'm going through,

00:14:14.760 --> 00:14:16.740
could have some point of reference.

00:14:16.740 --> 00:14:19.613
Not to save me, not to cure it, not...

00:14:19.613 --> 00:14:21.900
I just, I needed to talk to someone

00:14:21.900 --> 00:14:24.543
who got what the pain feels like.

00:14:25.560 --> 00:14:27.840
And at that moment, I didn't
have anyone in my life

00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:29.940
and so I just logged on.

00:14:29.940 --> 00:14:34.940
And so I approach this coaching experience

00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:37.830
that I'm now involved in as my opportunity

00:14:37.830 --> 00:14:41.163
to be that person for another human being.

00:14:42.540 --> 00:14:45.000
The thing I love so much about coaching

00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:47.654
is that it is a one-on-one experience.

00:14:47.654 --> 00:14:51.123
It's in real time, it's one
human being with another.

00:14:52.050 --> 00:14:54.060
In a pre COVID world, it might even happen

00:14:54.060 --> 00:14:58.410
in the same room, but here
we are in a post COVID world

00:14:58.410 --> 00:15:00.810
and we're using technology
and it allows us

00:15:00.810 --> 00:15:03.780
to connect with people
wherever they happen to be.

00:15:03.780 --> 00:15:05.760
But nonetheless, it's one on one

00:15:05.760 --> 00:15:09.420
and it's me showing up and being present.

00:15:09.420 --> 00:15:11.070
And whether I say it out loud

00:15:11.070 --> 00:15:14.790
or whether it's just
implied by my presence,

00:15:14.790 --> 00:15:18.300
I'm there because I know the pain

00:15:18.300 --> 00:15:19.740
that has been experienced

00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:22.830
by the person on the
other end of that line.

00:15:22.830 --> 00:15:23.790
I know what that feels like.

00:15:23.790 --> 00:15:26.250
I know what it feels like to
lay your head down on a pillow

00:15:26.250 --> 00:15:31.250
every night and not feel
like you are worthy enough

00:15:31.920 --> 00:15:34.620
to wake up to a bright future.

00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:37.563
And my mission now today is to say

00:15:37.563 --> 00:15:40.140
that that doesn't have to be the case,

00:15:40.140 --> 00:15:43.020
that there are active
things that you can do

00:15:43.020 --> 00:15:47.610
to move yourself out of that muck and mire

00:15:47.610 --> 00:15:52.000
and into a new life that can be

00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:56.403
so far beyond anything that
you could have imagined.

00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:59.500
So, yeah, there is life after failure.

00:16:00.660 --> 00:16:02.520
- For those who are listening,

00:16:02.520 --> 00:16:04.440
they probably picked up on this,

00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.790
but most definitely those who
are watching this via YouTube,

00:16:08.790 --> 00:16:13.790
when you transitioned to begin
talking about your future,

00:16:13.950 --> 00:16:17.430
you just lit up, you started smiling

00:16:17.430 --> 00:16:21.270
and you're talking about
a serious rollercoaster

00:16:21.270 --> 00:16:26.270
that you are on that
essentially everybody is on.

00:16:26.910 --> 00:16:30.960
You have described hitting

00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:32.850
what you thought was rock bottom,

00:16:32.850 --> 00:16:37.200
to have to do that yet again
and what is it you have to do.

00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:40.110
And that what you
discovered in the process

00:16:40.110 --> 00:16:43.530
is that at least one person stuck by you.

00:16:43.530 --> 00:16:44.363
- Yeah.

00:16:44.363 --> 00:16:46.020
- And I don't know if
the same person or not,

00:16:46.020 --> 00:16:50.250
but someone gifted you just a gift

00:16:50.250 --> 00:16:52.023
of a coaching session.

00:16:52.890 --> 00:16:55.350
My interest in inviting you as a guest,

00:16:55.350 --> 00:16:58.140
as you know Jim, I too coach,

00:16:58.140 --> 00:17:03.140
and I don't have the experience
to the depth that you do.

00:17:05.280 --> 00:17:08.310
When you're working with clients

00:17:08.310 --> 00:17:12.330
can people just sense that in you,

00:17:12.330 --> 00:17:14.970
that you have been
there, you've done that.

00:17:14.970 --> 00:17:19.290
Is there something almost unsaid

00:17:19.290 --> 00:17:21.333
in your interactions with your clients?

00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:23.753
- Wow!

00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:27.603
I hope so.

00:17:29.700 --> 00:17:31.890
I hope that they're...

00:17:31.890 --> 00:17:34.380
Whether it's through
Zoom or over the phone

00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:37.800
or on the odd chance that
we're in a room together.

00:17:37.800 --> 00:17:41.010
Actually I think face to
face in a room together

00:17:41.010 --> 00:17:42.420
I think it becomes a little easier

00:17:42.420 --> 00:17:46.590
because I think I can communicate
through body language,

00:17:46.590 --> 00:17:49.219
a certain degree of empathy

00:17:49.219 --> 00:17:52.833
that I think is a foundation
of the work that I do.

00:17:54.330 --> 00:17:58.290
I hope that it can come
across, I believe it does,

00:17:58.290 --> 00:18:02.460
I certainly hope it comes
across in a Zoom communication

00:18:02.460 --> 00:18:05.670
like we're experiencing
today or over the phone.

00:18:05.670 --> 00:18:09.330
So I believe so.

00:18:09.330 --> 00:18:14.330
I hear people, whether it
was just out and about,

00:18:17.610 --> 00:18:20.790
I have overheard in my coaching training

00:18:20.790 --> 00:18:24.249
because we do test sessions,

00:18:24.249 --> 00:18:27.570
educational sessions where
we're coaching peers,

00:18:27.570 --> 00:18:30.150
and I've heard people share stories

00:18:30.150 --> 00:18:33.750
about painful moments in their life

00:18:33.750 --> 00:18:37.680
and I've watched the
person filling the role

00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:40.680
as coach in that moment gloss over things

00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:42.360
that I would never have glossed over.

00:18:42.360 --> 00:18:45.900
So I do think that there's a sensitivity

00:18:45.900 --> 00:18:49.980
and certainly an empathy
that I bring to the table

00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:53.343
that I hope distinguishes
interactions with me.

00:18:54.570 --> 00:18:58.380
- In many respects as you
describe, prior roles,

00:18:58.380 --> 00:19:02.730
you were a business
owner and entrepreneur,

00:19:02.730 --> 00:19:04.890
and I know that you particularly work

00:19:04.890 --> 00:19:09.690
with high achieving business
owners and entrepreneurs.

00:19:09.690 --> 00:19:12.270
When I add that descriptive phrase,

00:19:12.270 --> 00:19:15.390
high achieving business owner

00:19:15.390 --> 00:19:18.360
or high achieving entrepreneurs,

00:19:18.360 --> 00:19:22.650
how does failure affect someone

00:19:22.650 --> 00:19:25.893
who might have been accustomed
to high achievement?

00:19:28.230 --> 00:19:29.530
- That's a great question.

00:19:33.510 --> 00:19:36.110
I think in some ways...

00:19:38.010 --> 00:19:40.080
I was going to say that it's more painful,

00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:41.850
but I don't think that's correct.

00:19:41.850 --> 00:19:46.850
I think a failure for someone
who is used to flying high,

00:19:46.950 --> 00:19:50.430
used to achieving great things,

00:19:50.430 --> 00:19:55.170
I think it's startling and shocking

00:19:55.170 --> 00:20:00.090
in a way that is so out of the norm

00:20:00.090 --> 00:20:02.550
of their life experience,

00:20:02.550 --> 00:20:06.000
particularly if there's
been a series of successes

00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:06.900
through their life,

00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:08.250
that if that's all they've ever known

00:20:08.250 --> 00:20:11.520
and then suddenly to be
thrown the monkey ranch

00:20:11.520 --> 00:20:16.520
of this big failure whatever
and however one defines that,

00:20:18.690 --> 00:20:22.680
I think the shock of that
can be so disorienting

00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:25.533
that for many of the
people that I work with,

00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:29.760
they're so knocked off balance

00:20:29.760 --> 00:20:32.280
that finding that place of balance again,

00:20:32.280 --> 00:20:37.280
seems an impossibility
despite their past successes.

00:20:37.800 --> 00:20:42.450
In some ways, it just feels

00:20:42.450 --> 00:20:44.200
a little more out of reach to them.

00:20:46.320 --> 00:20:48.600
Now the flip side to
that is that the correct

00:20:48.600 --> 00:20:52.080
can often be remarkably fast.

00:20:52.080 --> 00:20:56.130
Because for many high achieving people,

00:20:56.130 --> 00:21:01.130
they understand the principles
of learning from others,

00:21:02.580 --> 00:21:06.000
mirroring others' experiences
that will lead them

00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.420
to a goal that they've set out to achieve.

00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:13.143
And so when they're given,
okay, step A, step B, step C,

00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:16.980
they hit step A, they're
ready to move on to step B,

00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:21.330
onto step C and suddenly things
are very different for them.

00:21:21.330 --> 00:21:24.960
And so once they're able
to unleash that energy

00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:26.433
that they've been used to,

00:21:26.433 --> 00:21:28.920
that has been derailed to some extent

00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:33.920
by this setback or failure,
the recovery period...

00:21:35.452 --> 00:21:37.260
I remember reading an
article a number of years ago

00:21:37.260 --> 00:21:41.910
about athletes who train and
what they're training for

00:21:41.910 --> 00:21:43.560
in this particular instance

00:21:43.560 --> 00:21:46.800
was to shorten their recovery period.

00:21:46.800 --> 00:21:50.880
To run a mile without any training

00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:54.060
and your recovery period is
going to be X number of minutes

00:21:54.060 --> 00:21:56.430
before your heart rate
can return to normal.

00:21:56.430 --> 00:21:57.540
And once you've trained them

00:21:57.540 --> 00:21:59.520
for a number of weeks or months,

00:21:59.520 --> 00:22:02.520
that recovery period
becomes much, much shorter

00:22:02.520 --> 00:22:03.990
and thus you are in better shape

00:22:03.990 --> 00:22:05.730
and more prepared for that challenge.

00:22:05.730 --> 00:22:07.840
And I'd like to think that that's what

00:22:09.030 --> 00:22:11.280
the people that I'm fortunate to work with

00:22:11.280 --> 00:22:12.660
bring to the table.

00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:14.370
They bring to the table and understanding

00:22:14.370 --> 00:22:16.710
of what that training means,

00:22:16.710 --> 00:22:18.540
of what hitting those training sessions

00:22:18.540 --> 00:22:21.270
or doing the work means

00:22:21.270 --> 00:22:24.240
to reduce the time that
it takes to recover

00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:26.520
and to move into that next chapter.

00:22:26.520 --> 00:22:27.540
Does that make sense?

00:22:27.540 --> 00:22:28.410
- It makes perfect sense.

00:22:28.410 --> 00:22:29.970
And I'm glad you brought that up

00:22:29.970 --> 00:22:32.940
because though your personal experience

00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:34.980
was one in which there were,

00:22:34.980 --> 00:22:38.460
the lows were over a long period of time,

00:22:38.460 --> 00:22:42.120
what I'm hearing you say is
the nature of your coaching,

00:22:42.120 --> 00:22:44.460
what you've been
specifically trained to do,

00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:47.580
and where you're focusing on is that,

00:22:47.580 --> 00:22:52.580
it doesn't necessarily mean it
has to be a long term trough.

00:22:52.980 --> 00:22:53.813
- Exactly.

00:22:53.813 --> 00:22:55.920
- And that a high achieving person,

00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:58.110
one of the things they seem to have

00:22:58.110 --> 00:23:00.903
is the ability to kinda shake things off.

00:23:01.980 --> 00:23:05.013
Meaning, something happens, good,

00:23:06.030 --> 00:23:09.003
they kinda shake it off and
say all right, what's next?

00:23:09.990 --> 00:23:11.730
But if they have the equal ability,

00:23:11.730 --> 00:23:15.420
when something bad
happens to basically say,

00:23:15.420 --> 00:23:18.030
it happened and to shake it off,

00:23:18.030 --> 00:23:22.710
what I'm hearing is that
you can help leaders

00:23:22.710 --> 00:23:24.480
potentially shake these things off

00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:28.320
by quickly and appropriately
addressing the issues

00:23:28.320 --> 00:23:29.400
that need to be addressed.

00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:31.020
Does that comment make sense?

00:23:31.020 --> 00:23:34.300
- It does Mike, but I would underscore

00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:36.775
maybe something that you said

00:23:36.775 --> 00:23:40.800
and that is that they have
dealt with the real issue.

00:23:40.800 --> 00:23:45.330
Because just sort of acknowledging
that something happened

00:23:45.330 --> 00:23:48.510
and moving on, doesn't always equate

00:23:48.510 --> 00:23:51.393
into dealing with the underlying issues.

00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:56.103
When failure happens
there's always a reason.

00:23:57.420 --> 00:23:59.070
There's always a reason.

00:23:59.070 --> 00:24:02.080
Whether we are willing to honestly

00:24:03.090 --> 00:24:07.473
look at what the real reason
is, own our part in it.

00:24:08.490 --> 00:24:13.490
Not deny, not deflect, not
ignore, not deny, I said that,

00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:17.100
and take ownership of our part.

00:24:17.100 --> 00:24:18.720
Yes, maybe others participated,

00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:23.070
but we only can control
our part in any situation.

00:24:23.070 --> 00:24:25.020
So owning that,

00:24:25.020 --> 00:24:27.753
and then applying the
principles of recovery,

00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:31.980
that's the difference.

00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:33.903
Just acknowledging that it happened.

00:24:35.520 --> 00:24:38.040
I mean, one could build a case
that you're doing nothing,

00:24:38.040 --> 00:24:41.400
but just sort of burying it

00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:44.760
without actually addressing

00:24:44.760 --> 00:24:47.760
and solving the underlying issue.

00:24:47.760 --> 00:24:48.780
That make sense?

00:24:48.780 --> 00:24:50.100
- I'm glad you clarified.

00:24:50.100 --> 00:24:51.000
- Yeah.
- Because

00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:55.578
when I say move on,

00:24:55.578 --> 00:24:58.620
that could be another
phrase for bury in it.

00:24:58.620 --> 00:25:02.250
And if one is not willing to understand

00:25:02.250 --> 00:25:06.600
and own what may be that root cause

00:25:06.600 --> 00:25:08.880
then they're perhaps doomed to repeat

00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:11.070
that exact same thing again.

00:25:11.070 --> 00:25:11.903
- Yeah.

00:25:11.903 --> 00:25:14.010
- You know, Jim, I typically ask guests

00:25:14.010 --> 00:25:19.010
to share an example where either
they or a client got stuck

00:25:19.235 --> 00:25:22.410
and what did it take to get unstuck?

00:25:22.410 --> 00:25:25.200
I mean, this whole conversation

00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:28.060
kinda fits that description to the tee

00:25:29.310 --> 00:25:33.780
and that is you are sharing
your personal experience

00:25:33.780 --> 00:25:36.492
and how you are using
those personal experiences

00:25:36.492 --> 00:25:41.230
and that training to help
others who may be dealing

00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:44.190
with the same thing.

00:25:44.190 --> 00:25:46.740
You mentioned root causes.

00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:49.740
And this is a maybe
unfair question to ask,

00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:53.760
but when you're dealing with
highly successful people

00:25:53.760 --> 00:25:57.870
who are dealing with a
setback of some sort,

00:25:57.870 --> 00:26:00.780
and they begin to better understand

00:26:00.780 --> 00:26:02.940
what might be that root cause,

00:26:02.940 --> 00:26:07.940
they might begin to own their role in it

00:26:08.010 --> 00:26:12.240
and going forward, do you
see any patterns emerge

00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:14.790
as to what might be root causes

00:26:14.790 --> 00:26:16.263
or is it all over the board?

00:26:20.610 --> 00:26:22.263
- I think in general, Mike,

00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:28.640
I think the root causes are
as unique as each individual.

00:26:30.930 --> 00:26:33.030
I mean, I suppose there
are probably categories

00:26:33.030 --> 00:26:35.700
if we wanted to really do the research

00:26:35.700 --> 00:26:38.880
and start identifying things.

00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:43.860
Communication is a big category.

00:26:43.860 --> 00:26:46.290
Failures of communication can take us

00:26:46.290 --> 00:26:50.493
into some really dark places
that we don't wanna go to.

00:26:52.050 --> 00:26:53.370
Ignorance.

00:26:53.370 --> 00:26:56.700
For me I never had been

00:26:56.700 --> 00:27:00.780
and I have never claimed
to be a whiz with numbers

00:27:00.780 --> 00:27:02.100
or a whiz with money.

00:27:02.100 --> 00:27:03.780
In fact, when I had my business,

00:27:03.780 --> 00:27:05.820
the joke around the office
was if it involves numbers,

00:27:05.820 --> 00:27:06.840
just keep it away from Jim,

00:27:06.840 --> 00:27:10.233
because it's a disaster waiting to happen.

00:27:13.170 --> 00:27:16.710
When I look back on that, I
realize that I was making light

00:27:16.710 --> 00:27:20.610
of my own ignorance.

00:27:20.610 --> 00:27:21.900
And maybe to some degree...

00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:24.900
I mean, maybe I would
never be a mathematic whiz

00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:27.450
but I again, looking back on things,

00:27:27.450 --> 00:27:29.670
I realized that I could
have educated myself

00:27:29.670 --> 00:27:33.540
in a way that would've better prepared me

00:27:33.540 --> 00:27:36.780
to handle a situation
that I didn't handle well

00:27:36.780 --> 00:27:40.290
and that caused a lot of
pain and a lot of sorrow

00:27:40.290 --> 00:27:42.333
for myself and for many other people.

00:27:43.764 --> 00:27:46.893
So ignorance is another category.

00:27:50.820 --> 00:27:53.400
Goodness, you kind of
put me on the spot here.

00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:57.000
But I mean, this is a really
interesting conversation.

00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.730
I would say that there
are broad categories

00:27:59.730 --> 00:28:02.010
that things fall into for people,

00:28:02.010 --> 00:28:07.010
but everyone is a little unique.

00:28:07.470 --> 00:28:10.220
Everyone would be a little
unique in that regard, yeah.

00:28:11.520 --> 00:28:12.930
- Jim, I've already commented to you

00:28:12.930 --> 00:28:14.280
before we hit the record button

00:28:14.280 --> 00:28:18.120
how much I enjoy reading your website

00:28:18.120 --> 00:28:22.590
because it clearly is
not written by someone

00:28:22.590 --> 00:28:25.590
who doesn't know it's clearly got you

00:28:25.590 --> 00:28:28.473
and your fingerprints all over it.

00:28:29.430 --> 00:28:32.820
I'm gonna just read this
because it spoke to me

00:28:32.820 --> 00:28:36.450
and it kinda also speaks
to, as we kind of wrap up,

00:28:36.450 --> 00:28:40.740
I wanna give you a chance to reflect on.

00:28:40.740 --> 00:28:42.750
So what I'll do I wanna hold off

00:28:42.750 --> 00:28:45.350
before I read from your
website, invite you...

00:28:46.470 --> 00:28:48.840
As you kinda look at our conversation,

00:28:48.840 --> 00:28:50.700
some of the things we've talked about

00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:53.490
and you wanna make sure that our listeners

00:28:53.490 --> 00:28:56.010
really hear certain things.

00:28:56.010 --> 00:28:57.633
What are those takeaways?

00:29:00.120 --> 00:29:02.730
- I think the most important takeaway

00:29:02.730 --> 00:29:04.980
from any interaction
that I'm able to share

00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:09.690
with another person or
people is the idea that,

00:29:09.690 --> 00:29:12.360
and I've said it many times
and I repeat it regularly,

00:29:12.360 --> 00:29:14.160
there is life after failure.

00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:19.160
That whatever thing
you have stumbled over,

00:29:19.710 --> 00:29:21.330
whether it was falling off the wagon

00:29:21.330 --> 00:29:24.480
and you eating that donut
and blowing your diet,

00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:27.360
not getting to the gym
the way you regularly,

00:29:27.360 --> 00:29:31.200
the way you were
determined to regularly go,

00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:35.400
whether it's a relationship
that is tanking right now,

00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:38.880
and that you're feeling
guilt and shame over,

00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:43.050
whether it's a business
deal that has gone sideways

00:29:43.050 --> 00:29:45.090
or a business in its entirety

00:29:45.090 --> 00:29:48.630
that is going or has gone sideways,

00:29:48.630 --> 00:29:53.630
it doesn't matter, you're
not alone and there is hope.

00:29:54.630 --> 00:29:57.270
I think that would be
the double pronged thing

00:29:57.270 --> 00:29:58.740
that I would want to underscore.

00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:01.413
You're not alone and that there is hope.

00:30:03.060 --> 00:30:06.210
- For those out there
who might get that sense

00:30:06.210 --> 00:30:07.650
that they may be alone

00:30:07.650 --> 00:30:10.320
and maybe you are finding hope elusive,

00:30:10.320 --> 00:30:12.873
what's the best way for
people to reach out to you?

00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:19.160
- The easiest way to find me
is the website, james-swan.com.

00:30:22.410 --> 00:30:24.780
There's an easy contact form there,

00:30:24.780 --> 00:30:26.250
you can reach out there.

00:30:26.250 --> 00:30:28.893
I believe the phone
number is posted on there.

00:30:29.850 --> 00:30:34.140
Make a call, shoot me a
text, send me an email.

00:30:34.140 --> 00:30:37.050
It's jim@james-swan.com.

00:30:37.050 --> 00:30:38.280
Super easy.

00:30:38.280 --> 00:30:41.280
Don't forget the hyphen, the
dash in there is important.

00:30:41.280 --> 00:30:43.440
I couldn't get the James Swan URL,

00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:44.590
somebody beat me to it.

00:30:45.570 --> 00:30:50.570
But yeah, jim@james-swan.com
or the website, james-swan.com,

00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:53.940
that's the easiest place to find me.

00:30:53.940 --> 00:30:57.510
- We obviously will include
that in the show notes.

00:30:57.510 --> 00:30:59.370
We had the same issue with Bench Builders.

00:30:59.370 --> 00:31:04.053
We had to add the dash in
between to build a claim that.

00:31:05.100 --> 00:31:06.720
I would like to read this just

00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:08.640
because I just thought
this was so well written.

00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:13.020
This was kinda a call to
action from your website

00:31:13.020 --> 00:31:14.347
and it reads,

00:31:14.347 --> 00:31:16.717
"Are you ready to take the first step?

00:31:16.717 --> 00:31:20.047
"At this point, you can
follow one of two paths.

00:31:20.047 --> 00:31:22.957
"First, you can move on without
clicking the button below

00:31:22.957 --> 00:31:25.657
"and continuing doing
what you've always done,

00:31:25.657 --> 00:31:27.637
"and chances are, you'll continue getting

00:31:27.637 --> 00:31:29.217
"what you've always gotten."

00:31:30.067 --> 00:31:32.467
"You can continue to struggle
with your goals and dreams

00:31:32.467 --> 00:31:34.477
"and face the challenges alone,

00:31:34.477 --> 00:31:37.057
"or you can choose the second path.

00:31:37.057 --> 00:31:39.127
"You can choose to do something different

00:31:39.127 --> 00:31:42.307
"to stop trying to figure
this all out by yourself

00:31:42.307 --> 00:31:44.557
"and instead follow the lead of someone

00:31:44.557 --> 00:31:46.630
"who has already figured out how to help

00:31:47.467 --> 00:31:50.797
"achieve the things that you want badly.

00:31:50.797 --> 00:31:52.507
"You know where you'll be in a year,

00:31:52.507 --> 00:31:54.817
"if you choose to do nothing,

00:31:54.817 --> 00:31:58.237
"but there's no telling
how far you'll go in life

00:31:58.237 --> 00:32:00.967
"with an expert by your side guiding you

00:32:00.967 --> 00:32:03.487
"every step of the way.

00:32:03.487 --> 00:32:05.557
"If you're ready to change your life,

00:32:05.557 --> 00:32:08.047
"I invite you to choose the second path.

00:32:08.047 --> 00:32:11.047
"Click the button below
and take the first step

00:32:11.047 --> 00:32:13.887
"towards your best life ever."

00:32:14.760 --> 00:32:17.310
Jim, this is episode number 88,

00:32:17.310 --> 00:32:21.810
I've never quoted someone's
website up to this point.

00:32:21.810 --> 00:32:25.410
But those paragraphs just resonates you.

00:32:25.410 --> 00:32:28.410
If I'm reading it and I'm
now hearing the voice,

00:32:28.410 --> 00:32:31.890
I have a much clearer
sense of what you get

00:32:31.890 --> 00:32:34.590
when you reach out to Jim.

00:32:34.590 --> 00:32:39.270
So Jim, thank you for
sharing your perspective.

00:32:39.270 --> 00:32:41.610
Thank you for sharing your heart

00:32:41.610 --> 00:32:44.250
and thank you for making it clear

00:32:44.250 --> 00:32:46.020
to everyone who's listening,

00:32:46.020 --> 00:32:49.023
that there really is life after failure.

00:32:50.340 --> 00:32:51.173
- Thank you, Mike.

00:32:51.173 --> 00:32:52.006
It's been a pleasure.

00:32:53.910 --> 00:32:56.850
- I also wanna thank our
listeners for joining us today.

00:32:56.850 --> 00:32:59.760
We upload the latest
episode to Apple, Google,

00:32:59.760 --> 00:33:01.950
and Spotify every Thursday.

00:33:01.950 --> 00:33:05.160
So if you've enjoyed
this episode with Jim,

00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:06.363
please subscribe.

00:33:07.530 --> 00:33:10.920
Earlier, I shared that we
love helping companies,

00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:14.880
especially manufacturers
scale faster and smarter.

00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.340
So if you're ready to
solve those nagging people,

00:33:17.340 --> 00:33:19.020
process or planning problems

00:33:19.020 --> 00:33:21.360
that are slowing your company's growth.

00:33:21.360 --> 00:33:24.450
If that's the yes, let's
schedule quick call.

00:33:24.450 --> 00:33:29.160
You can go to our website,
bench-builders.com

00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:33.750
or simply type unstuck.show
in your browser.

00:33:33.750 --> 00:33:35.730
So I wanna thank you for joining us

00:33:35.730 --> 00:33:38.760
and I hope you have picked
up on some tips from Jim

00:33:38.760 --> 00:33:41.553
that will help you get
unstuck and on target.

00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:43.537
Until next time.

00:33:43.537 --> 00:33:46.120
(bright music)

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