Episode 83: Lessons on Starting a Small Service-Based Business During a Time of Extreme Upheaval With Scott Zoll

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(upbeat music)

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- Welcome back to the "Get
Unstuck & On Target Podcast."

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I'm Mike O'Neill with Bench Builders,

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and we help growing companies,

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especially manufacturers,
improve their people, process,

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and planning systems, so they
can scale smarter and faster.

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Joining me from Golden,
Colorado, is Scott Zoll.

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Scott is the co-founder of
Fairplay Communications.

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His company specializes in fast-paced,

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instructor-led learning
programs designed to engage

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even the most skeptical
leaders and sales teams.

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Prior to co-founding Fairplay,
Scott spent seven years

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as VP of Learning and Development

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for Second City Works, the corporate arm

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of the iconic Second
City Theater in Chicago.

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Scott and his business
partner launched their company

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in late February, 2019, just as COVID hit.

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So I've asked Scott to
share his experience

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as an entrepreneur, and the
lessons that they have learned

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in starting a small service-based business

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during a time of extreme upheaval.

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Welcome, Scott.

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- Thanks, Mike, how are you today?

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- I'm well, thank you.

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Scott as you know, the
listeners of this podcast

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typically are leaders,
especially entrepreneurs,

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and so anytime I have an opportunity

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to talk to another
entrepreneur who's willing

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to tell their story, I always get

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very, very positive feedback,
but it's kind of interesting

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how you came into your
role as an entrepreneur.

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Do you mind if we go back a few years

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to your experience with Second City?

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For those who are listening,

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who may not be familiar with Second City,

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can you kind of share who are they,

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and how did this setting up

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this business arm in Second City,

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how did all that come together?

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- Yeah, so I wasn't
there at the origination

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of the Second City Works piece,

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but I can tell you how that came to be.

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So Second City, for those that don't know,

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is a world famous, iconic improv theater

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based in Chicago and
Toronto and Los Angeles.

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And if you don't know Second City,

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what you probably know
are the famous people

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that have come through Second City.

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So anybody from most of the first cast

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of Saturday Night Live,

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so Bill Murray and Dan
Aykroyd and Gilda Radner,

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all the way through to current day,

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Tina Fey and Steve
Carrell, Steven Colbert,

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the list goes on and on and on.

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And so if people do know
the Second City name,

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what they know typically
are the famous people

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that have come through here.

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Second City's often a feeder
system for Saturday Night Live

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and for other big writing opportunities

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within the entertainment space.

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So probably about, I think
they would've been around 2007,

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2008, somewhere in that range,

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companies started hiring Second City

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to do entertainment and to
do shows, and oftentimes,

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shows are predicated based on
feedback from the audience.

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And so the entertainers would ask, well,

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can you tell us some of the
things that are going on

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within your organizations,
that we can use those

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as fodder for whatever
we create for that show.

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And oftentimes, what
they would hear is that,

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it was usually the bad
things or the mishaps

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that they were hearing
about their organizations

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and the actors started to realize, well,

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we train a lot of these
things in our training center,

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which is meant for students that

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just wanna literally learn improv.

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But a lot of that
conversation was like, well,

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you actually could do some exercises

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and do a workshop for you,
if you guys were interested,

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which is fun and engaging,
very experiential.

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And that was really sort of the genesis

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or the birth of Second City Works

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and working in that B2B space.

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I started with them, I think
it was January of 2012,

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is when I started actually
with Second City Works.

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At the time it was Second
City Communications,

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went through a name
change, and our work really

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specifically was working with companies

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around communication skills.

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So it was anything from
how to build trust,

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how to be more resilient, how
to show up more authentically.

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But what we really found
in those sessions was that

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they were a great spot for
people to join the dialogue

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and really have their
voice heard about things

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that were potentially concerning them.

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And then, so over the years,
we just more developed work

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that brought people into our world.

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We would equate what we were doing

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and what we were seeing on stage

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about being present,
about being an ensemble,

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and really applying that
to the business world.

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And that's really how that work took off.

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I had left in 2019 to start Fairplay,

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but Second City Works
still goes on to this day.

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- What intrigues me about that
is we're talking about improv

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and that's short for what, improvisation?

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- Improvisation.
- And it's, in the original,

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it was more comedy sketches
and that type of thing.

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But what is it about the notion of improv?

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How does that relate to business leaders?

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Is there an element of
improv in what we do?

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- Yeah, that's a great question.

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So the, the very
cornerstone of improvisation

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is a concept called "yes and."

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"Yes and" isn't agreement,
it's affirmation.

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The "yes" is affirmation, "and"
is building, so for example,

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when a cast is on stage
doing a show, right,

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an improv show is based
on audience suggestions.

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And when they're on stage,
they don't have any props.

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They have no scripts.

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Everything is created
right there in the moment,

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and what they have is each other,

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and they can rely on one another

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in terms of generating
ideas, playing off of ideas.

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Sometimes you have the idea.

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Sometimes you contribute
to someone else's idea.

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And there's a lot of, I
dunno, if you call 'em axioms,

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but one in particular is "bring
a brick, not a cathedral."

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And the whole concept of
"bring a brick" is like,

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if you bring your brick
and I bring my brick,

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we'll create a cathedral together

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and make something amazing,
but if you come to the meeting

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or the event or whatever else it is,

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with the cathedral already
built, I'm just a spectator.

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I'm not a part of the decision,

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particularly when those
decisions might impact me,

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as somebody who has to
carry those things out.

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So, the whole idea is really around,

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how do we work together as an ensemble?

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How do we create focus on others,

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so that we can allow people the space

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to show up as they are,
thinking as they need to,

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and then encourage that.

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So the more we encourage
people to speak up,

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the more opportunity
and ideas that we have,

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there's always time to
edit on the back end.

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It's not, every idea is
gonna be a great idea,

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but if you don't allow the
idea just a chance to breathe,

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well, then you never know what's possible.

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And so that's really
where that all comes from.

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So improvisation, this
conversation you and I are having

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right now is an improvised conversation.

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You have some questions for me.

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I have some responses for you,

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but I don't know where
the conversation will go.

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So we're just riffing and
playing off of one another

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to see where things land
and we could edit it.

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And it could be very specific,

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but that really flies in the face of the,

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of the beauty of improv is like, well,

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we don't know where it's gonna
go, we're just gonna see.

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And where we think we might end up

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may not be the place where we
originally had intended to go.

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- What you just shared
is a perfect description

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of what you and I are doing right now.

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Yes, we did mutually agree that

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your entrepreneurial journey, I think,

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would be interest to our listeners,

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particularly the timing of
that entrepreneurial journey,

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but you are kind of showing
how you have brought together

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those seven years of experience

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as VP of Learning Development for them.

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Let's move to this idea
of starting a business.

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You have a business partner?

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How long did y'all kind of mull the idea

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of starting a business
before you even did so?

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- Yeah, so it was, it
was not even that long.

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I think that there was a lot of energy

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and a lot of excitement around,

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well, what we started doing
at Second City was amazing.

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How do we take that further?

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How do we include elements
of science as well?

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Because a lot of people
wanna understand, well,

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what is the brain science behind

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why this works and that sort of thing.

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So we've started to pull
in different relationships

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with different organizations that have

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more of the science side of what we do

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and individuals who do design work

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and things like that for us.

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So it's not just the improv components,

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it's the science behind, well,
why does this actually work?

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And I think the thing that companies find

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most in working with us, it's not just

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the content that we talk about,

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but because it's really
grounded in their world,

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but it's really the experience
that they have then,

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when we're there in the
room with them, right?

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Allowing that opportunity
for people to open up.

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So to go back, sorry to
your original question,

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which was how much time did we spend?

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We had probably started
speaking in late 2019,

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maybe August, September timeframe of 2019,

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just kicking around the idea.

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And then we really didn't
launch until February.

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And in fact, we literally
launched the week before

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the pandemic was when we
actually put our shingle out

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and started to really announce
that we were in business

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doing the work we were doing.

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- Scott, what really caught
my attention was a blog post,

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whereas you kind of laid out
a bit about that process.

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What I understood from reading
this is that you and Andy,

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you had a business concept,
you had momentum on your side,

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you've worked together in the past.

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You identified that you wanted

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to start Fairplay Communications.

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You picked a launch date,

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but you also had lined
up a potential pipeline.

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You got off to a really great start,

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and then it all hit, in a
matter of weeks, did it not?

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- Yeah, it was very fast.

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And what we went to market with

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was getting really positive reviews,

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and we had done some
market research in advance,

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spoke to some friendly people
that we knew had done work

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with us in the past, just to make sure

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we understood like,
Hey, does this have legs

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beyond what we did before?

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We were trying decidedly to not do

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what Second City Works was doing.

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We were still rooted in improvisation,

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but we weren't teaching improvisation,

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which is a lot of what the work is done

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on that side of the house.

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So for us, it was really about,

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how do we engage and get deeper,

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generate insights out of these sessions

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that can really point to
maybe potential opportunities

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or obstacles in trying to
grow a company's business.

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So that was, it was really again,

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and what we went to
market with is different

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than how we talk about the work now.

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It's not that the work itself has changed.

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What's really changed is
how we talk about the work.

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And that seems to, it has had to align

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with what we're seeing in the
marketplace more and more.

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I mean, there's what we can do.

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There's what we want to do.

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And then there's what the
market wants. (laughing)

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And so we've had to try to balance

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the mix between those three things.

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- For clarification, can you describe

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what are the services specifically

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that you are currently offering?

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- Yeah, so we focus in three areas.

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Our work is, it's live
instructor-led training, right?

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And so it's done either in
room or it's done virtually.

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Where we've focused more specifically

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is around leadership development,

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sales effectiveness, and team dynamics.

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We chose those areas
for a couple of reasons,

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because we're not a technology,
or because we don't do,

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we don't have an online platform

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that we deliver all of this through.

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We had to look at like, well,

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where is the biggest impact made?

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And that was really through leaders,

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and being able to help them
see how they are showing up

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in the conversations that they're having.

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So that was one part of it.

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The sales component of it,
the sales effectiveness piece,

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really goes back to some
of the roots of the work

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that we were doing, and
a lot around presentation

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and storytelling is a big component

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of what the sales
portion of what we do is,

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we're not a methodology,
so we're not spin selling

00:12:14.010 --> 00:12:15.870
or solution selling or any of those.

00:12:15.870 --> 00:12:18.060
Ours is just an opportunity to be able

00:12:18.060 --> 00:12:21.390
to flex as the client in front of you

00:12:21.390 --> 00:12:23.430
changes what they're looking for.

00:12:23.430 --> 00:12:25.895
And then the team
dynamics piece really was,

00:12:25.895 --> 00:12:28.290
teams have to work cohesively together.

00:12:28.290 --> 00:12:32.610
And oftentimes, times there's an inability

00:12:32.610 --> 00:12:35.670
to have critical or
pivotal conversations that

00:12:35.670 --> 00:12:38.850
they need to be having,
for fear of not being

00:12:38.850 --> 00:12:40.500
part of a team or whatever else it is.

00:12:40.500 --> 00:12:42.540
So these sessions were really designed

00:12:42.540 --> 00:12:45.330
to take people out of their element,

00:12:45.330 --> 00:12:47.850
allow them to learn some
skills, but in the process,

00:12:47.850 --> 00:12:49.680
really start to have a conversation about,

00:12:49.680 --> 00:12:52.590
this is where we have opportunities

00:12:52.590 --> 00:12:55.230
as a team to grow and to be more effective

00:12:55.230 --> 00:12:56.670
and to be more supportive of one another.

00:12:56.670 --> 00:13:00.300
So that was really the areas
in which we focused in on.

00:13:00.300 --> 00:13:02.837
The sales piece, I
would say in particular,

00:13:02.837 --> 00:13:05.250
we just had a lot of people coming to us

00:13:05.250 --> 00:13:07.020
with that specific need, and so,

00:13:07.020 --> 00:13:08.820
that became a bigger component

00:13:08.820 --> 00:13:09.990
of the work that we were doing.

00:13:09.990 --> 00:13:12.075
We didn't set out to create
a sales training company,

00:13:12.075 --> 00:13:14.610
but the need was there, and it was a need

00:13:14.610 --> 00:13:15.930
that we could fulfill, and therefore,

00:13:15.930 --> 00:13:17.910
we stepped into that role as well.

00:13:18.893 --> 00:13:21.510
- Well, I speak very clearly into the role

00:13:21.510 --> 00:13:23.907
of entrepreneur and that is,
if you've identified a need

00:13:23.907 --> 00:13:26.430
and you can meet that need,

00:13:26.430 --> 00:13:29.970
y'all figure out a way to address that,

00:13:29.970 --> 00:13:33.990
leveraging what you know
works, and works best.

00:13:33.990 --> 00:13:36.960
Can I go back to the blog
article specifically,

00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:39.210
because what you did in that blog article

00:13:39.210 --> 00:13:41.010
that I just thought was so helpful,

00:13:41.010 --> 00:13:43.260
to me as a reader of it is,

00:13:43.260 --> 00:13:46.050
you just walk the reader
through a little bit

00:13:46.050 --> 00:13:47.940
about those lessons learned.

00:13:47.940 --> 00:13:50.103
So again, you started the business

00:13:50.103 --> 00:13:53.793
literally weeks before COVID hit,

00:13:55.020 --> 00:13:57.630
it hit, and y'all had to make decisions

00:13:57.630 --> 00:14:02.630
like the rest of the world
and you began to lay out

00:14:03.090 --> 00:14:05.550
what were your takeaways then,

00:14:05.550 --> 00:14:08.040
to some extent, what
are your takeaways now.

00:14:08.040 --> 00:14:10.170
But one of the first
things you mentioned was,

00:14:10.170 --> 00:14:12.912
let your purpose be your guide.

00:14:12.912 --> 00:14:16.860
In what way did you let
the purpose be your guide,

00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:20.130
early on during all this?

00:14:20.130 --> 00:14:23.160
- Yeah, I think we never really changed

00:14:23.160 --> 00:14:25.020
what our purpose of the business was,

00:14:25.020 --> 00:14:27.330
but as we formulated the business,

00:14:27.330 --> 00:14:29.204
and part of this was
based on past experiences,

00:14:29.204 --> 00:14:31.710
our first and foremost goal was,

00:14:31.710 --> 00:14:33.410
how do we put good people to work?

00:14:34.848 --> 00:14:36.150
Just a step underneath that is,

00:14:36.150 --> 00:14:39.060
how do we do great work for
the people that are hiring us?

00:14:39.060 --> 00:14:40.260
And then the third was obviously,

00:14:40.260 --> 00:14:41.820
how do we grow our business?

00:14:41.820 --> 00:14:43.440
I think we hear a lot of times that

00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:45.780
companies are just really
focused on growing their business

00:14:45.780 --> 00:14:48.240
and they have this urgency to create it

00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:51.090
into something that they want it to be.

00:14:51.090 --> 00:14:53.400
And sometimes we just
have to follow the flow,

00:14:53.400 --> 00:14:55.565
and sometimes we have to create the flow,

00:14:55.565 --> 00:14:57.630
and that's what we had
to experience early on.

00:14:57.630 --> 00:15:00.342
So while we talked about work
a little bit differently,

00:15:00.342 --> 00:15:02.640
we had to shift to the way

00:15:02.640 --> 00:15:04.410
that we thought about the work that we do,

00:15:04.410 --> 00:15:06.120
and really the umbrella underneath,

00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:07.891
which we function right now is,

00:15:07.891 --> 00:15:10.530
how do we help people to train

00:15:10.530 --> 00:15:11.970
around the concept of adaptability,

00:15:11.970 --> 00:15:14.441
specifically as it relates
in the face of change?

00:15:14.441 --> 00:15:18.090
So, we had to shift and if we couldn't,

00:15:18.090 --> 00:15:19.230
if we were trying to teach others

00:15:19.230 --> 00:15:21.540
how to be more adaptable and
we couldn't do it ourselves,

00:15:21.540 --> 00:15:23.490
well, then there was
really no reason to hire us

00:15:23.490 --> 00:15:25.621
or bring us in to do
that type of work, right?

00:15:25.621 --> 00:15:28.470
But that was really that, I mean,

00:15:28.470 --> 00:15:30.180
that was a big learning for us was just,

00:15:30.180 --> 00:15:32.747
we had an idea of where the
business was going to go.

00:15:32.747 --> 00:15:36.930
We realized that as the
world changed around us,

00:15:36.930 --> 00:15:39.420
our purpose didn't, and to
get back to your questions

00:15:39.420 --> 00:15:42.420
specifically, and our
purpose really was though,

00:15:42.420 --> 00:15:43.350
were those three things,

00:15:43.350 --> 00:15:45.420
and those still guide us to this point.

00:15:45.420 --> 00:15:48.000
And people want to know that
about you in an organization.

00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:51.180
They get that you serve these products

00:15:51.180 --> 00:15:52.860
or have this service
or whatever else it is,

00:15:52.860 --> 00:15:55.110
but they wanna understand, why you?

00:15:55.110 --> 00:15:59.070
Why what you do, and what
you believe, is so important

00:15:59.070 --> 00:16:01.530
that they would wanna get on
board and with that as well.

00:16:01.530 --> 00:16:04.530
And so, as long as you don't
waiver from that purpose

00:16:04.530 --> 00:16:06.240
or that vision of what you think it is,

00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:07.830
I think you're much better off.

00:16:07.830 --> 00:16:10.194
And you're hearing right
now, at least in our market,

00:16:10.194 --> 00:16:13.410
we're definitely hearing that people

00:16:13.410 --> 00:16:15.570
that are changing jobs wanna know

00:16:15.570 --> 00:16:17.280
that their values align with

00:16:17.280 --> 00:16:19.367
the purpose of the organization.

00:16:19.367 --> 00:16:21.120
So much so to the point that

00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:23.677
people are willing to take less money

00:16:23.677 --> 00:16:27.030
in order to make sure
that they find that place.

00:16:27.030 --> 00:16:28.405
And so we wanted to be very clear,

00:16:28.405 --> 00:16:30.600
and make sure that we were
following what we said

00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:32.640
we were going to do, independent of

00:16:32.640 --> 00:16:33.897
how the world was changing around us.

00:16:33.897 --> 00:16:35.160
And that hasn't changed.

00:16:35.160 --> 00:16:36.899
That's been really has been our guidance.

00:16:36.899 --> 00:16:39.690
- You have perfectly illustrated

00:16:39.690 --> 00:16:41.599
the first three points
of your blog article,

00:16:41.599 --> 00:16:44.490
let your purpose be your guide,

00:16:44.490 --> 00:16:47.370
listen to your clients and prospects

00:16:47.370 --> 00:16:48.570
with what are their needs,

00:16:48.570 --> 00:16:51.120
and understand how you
might be able to help them.

00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:56.120
And then you spoke to
the need to be adaptable,

00:16:56.910 --> 00:16:59.613
and you call that,
flexibility is your friend.

00:17:00.900 --> 00:17:02.610
And it sounds as if some
of the things though,

00:17:02.610 --> 00:17:06.540
that you said in place early
on, has still stuck with you

00:17:06.540 --> 00:17:09.900
though you've had to
be somewhat adaptable.

00:17:09.900 --> 00:17:13.470
You know, we opened this
conversation talking about improv,

00:17:13.470 --> 00:17:14.653
and there's something about,

00:17:14.653 --> 00:17:18.720
I just marvel at the literal creativity

00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:22.890
that these professional
improv people are able to do.

00:17:22.890 --> 00:17:25.965
They take whatever's thrown
their way and they go with it.

00:17:25.965 --> 00:17:29.040
Tell me a little more about this notion

00:17:29.040 --> 00:17:32.895
of creativity is the
elimination of options.

00:17:32.895 --> 00:17:35.610
- (laughing) Yeah, so there's,

00:17:35.610 --> 00:17:40.200
that was an idea that had occurred

00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:44.400
in my career very early on
is that, there's an old,

00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:46.980
and I'm gonna butcher this
story, but there's a story.

00:17:46.980 --> 00:17:49.500
And I believe it's around the
invention of the light bulb

00:17:49.500 --> 00:17:52.620
and Thomas Edison, and he had
tried a hundred different ways

00:17:52.620 --> 00:17:54.005
in order to make the light bulb work.

00:17:54.005 --> 00:17:56.749
And he was given some grief for,

00:17:56.749 --> 00:18:00.627
that it took him a
hundred tries to get it.

00:18:00.627 --> 00:18:02.557
And essentially the response is,

00:18:02.557 --> 00:18:05.850
"Well, I just figured out 99
ways not to do it, right?"

00:18:05.850 --> 00:18:08.910
So while we all have an
idea of where we want to go,

00:18:08.910 --> 00:18:11.100
how we get there doesn't always align

00:18:11.100 --> 00:18:13.075
with our vision for what that is, right?

00:18:13.075 --> 00:18:16.733
So, being able to step into like,

00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.250
this is how I think it's gonna get done.

00:18:20.250 --> 00:18:21.810
If it doesn't work that way,

00:18:21.810 --> 00:18:23.520
you just learned one
way not to do it, right?

00:18:23.520 --> 00:18:26.820
And it'll guide you back to
what your original idea was.

00:18:26.820 --> 00:18:28.317
The fewer options that we have,

00:18:28.317 --> 00:18:30.590
the more creative we have to become.

00:18:30.590 --> 00:18:33.570
And that really is what
that concept is about,

00:18:33.570 --> 00:18:36.300
is that, that creativity
is elimination of options.

00:18:36.300 --> 00:18:38.880
If I only have two choices to go,

00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:41.190
well, how do I make my choice?

00:18:41.190 --> 00:18:45.510
Or how do I create the right path,

00:18:45.510 --> 00:18:47.850
when I'm limited in the
options that I have,

00:18:47.850 --> 00:18:49.530
and that's really what
that's in reference to.

00:18:49.530 --> 00:18:50.937
So, the fewer options we have,

00:18:50.937 --> 00:18:52.470
the more creative we have to become.

00:18:52.470 --> 00:18:56.160
And that's really, it's
a guide for improvisers.

00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:58.500
It's a guide for me, it's a guide for you.

00:18:58.500 --> 00:19:00.350
It's a guide for life, quite frankly.

00:19:01.290 --> 00:19:04.230
- We're talking primarily
in the context of you,

00:19:04.230 --> 00:19:06.630
a business owner, a co-founder,

00:19:06.630 --> 00:19:09.720
a business owner who started a business

00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:14.720
with a business partner at a
time that the world shut down.

00:19:15.150 --> 00:19:16.980
But you've shared thus far that

00:19:16.980 --> 00:19:20.790
the original ideas in
terms of the purpose,

00:19:20.790 --> 00:19:24.780
those really have held
true, even to this point.

00:19:24.780 --> 00:19:27.660
You have stressed the
importance of listening,

00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:29.767
listening well to your clients,

00:19:29.767 --> 00:19:34.767
to your prospects, and
that when you are mindful,

00:19:36.546 --> 00:19:39.840
that things need to be adapted on the fly.

00:19:39.840 --> 00:19:41.580
You mentioned, I think sales training,

00:19:41.580 --> 00:19:44.820
that was not necessarily what
you envisioned initially,

00:19:44.820 --> 00:19:47.160
but it's now a key
component of your offering,

00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:49.323
based on what clients have asked for.

00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:54.663
You've also pointed out that creativity,

00:19:55.581 --> 00:19:59.250
and you write the creativity
is the elimination of options,

00:20:00.330 --> 00:20:05.280
but in doing so, it might
even open up possibilities.

00:20:05.280 --> 00:20:08.400
But as you've experienced this

00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:09.780
over the last, what is this now?

00:20:09.780 --> 00:20:12.060
I lose track of time.

00:20:12.060 --> 00:20:15.603
We're recording this in mid May of 2022.

00:20:18.385 --> 00:20:22.302
COVID hit in earnest in
what, February of 2019?

00:20:23.927 --> 00:20:24.760
- 20, I guess yeah.

00:20:24.760 --> 00:20:27.757
- 19, 20, that being said, you clearly,

00:20:29.790 --> 00:20:31.593
as a business owner, had setbacks.

00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:37.083
And when you experience
setbacks as a business owner,

00:20:37.083 --> 00:20:40.697
you write, "There's always tomorrow."

00:20:40.697 --> 00:20:44.550
Is that referencing setbacks,
or what is that referencing?

00:20:44.550 --> 00:20:46.889
- Yeah, so it's a really good question.

00:20:46.889 --> 00:20:48.661
It's something that's come up a lot for us

00:20:48.661 --> 00:20:51.330
as we're now two years
into this business is,

00:20:51.330 --> 00:20:54.213
this sense of urgency,

00:20:55.191 --> 00:20:59.430
that we keep hearing other companies have

00:20:59.430 --> 00:21:00.720
this sense of urgency and it's like,

00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.070
well, I'd rather do it
right than do it urgent.

00:21:04.530 --> 00:21:08.100
So, for us, I may not have
had something yesterday,

00:21:08.100 --> 00:21:09.630
but now I feel like I need it today.

00:21:09.630 --> 00:21:11.700
And therefore that creates
this sense of urgency,

00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:12.960
which just creates frustration

00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:17.700
and creates us moving maybe
quicker than we need to.

00:21:17.700 --> 00:21:19.800
And I'm not saying there
isn't a place for urgency,

00:21:19.800 --> 00:21:20.903
like you're in a burning building

00:21:20.903 --> 00:21:22.350
and you need to get out quick.

00:21:22.350 --> 00:21:23.910
There's a sense of urgency.

00:21:23.910 --> 00:21:26.040
But at the same time, we create urgency

00:21:26.040 --> 00:21:29.883
without really thinking
through like, how is this?

00:21:33.938 --> 00:21:37.620
How is me being hasty going
to help me in the long run?

00:21:37.620 --> 00:21:39.172
It's only gonna create more time

00:21:39.172 --> 00:21:42.000
that I have to do the work that I thought

00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:43.140
I was getting to in the first place,

00:21:43.140 --> 00:21:45.360
because I've created this
false sense of urgency,

00:21:45.360 --> 00:21:46.290
in the work that I'm doing.

00:21:46.290 --> 00:21:49.595
And so for us, just to
go back to your point

00:21:49.595 --> 00:21:53.003
about creating the sales
vertical within what we do,

00:21:53.003 --> 00:21:55.620
I mean, that was literally
just sitting down,

00:21:55.620 --> 00:21:57.420
listening to what clients wanted.

00:21:57.420 --> 00:21:59.490
We had urgency around
creating the other components

00:21:59.490 --> 00:22:03.213
of our business, but this piece popped up

00:22:03.213 --> 00:22:07.740
and we sat back and observed
it and tried to work with it

00:22:07.740 --> 00:22:09.770
a little bit here and
there and found out that

00:22:09.770 --> 00:22:13.620
it had some crazy legs
that we needed to pursue.

00:22:13.620 --> 00:22:16.050
And that really brought in for as well.

00:22:16.050 --> 00:22:17.520
and with sales teams in particular,

00:22:17.520 --> 00:22:18.510
there is a sense of urgency.

00:22:18.510 --> 00:22:20.520
You only have so much
time to make your sales

00:22:20.520 --> 00:22:22.478
and to do everything
else, but your timeline

00:22:22.478 --> 00:22:25.380
as a salesperson is very
different than the need

00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:27.180
of your client and their sense of urgency.

00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:29.430
So how are you creating value for them,

00:22:29.430 --> 00:22:31.290
while also not overwhelming them

00:22:31.290 --> 00:22:32.970
and inundating them with information

00:22:32.970 --> 00:22:35.160
that maybe isn't pertinent
to them at that moment?

00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:37.680
So, not sure if that fully
answers your question,

00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:38.844
but that's something that we've seen,

00:22:38.844 --> 00:22:41.034
in terms of that sense of urgency

00:22:41.034 --> 00:22:42.870
as it relates to creativity,

00:22:42.870 --> 00:22:46.530
as it relates to being flexible.

00:22:46.530 --> 00:22:50.130
There's just a lot of it's about, again,

00:22:50.130 --> 00:22:52.410
there's another axiom in the improv world

00:22:52.410 --> 00:22:54.217
that says, "Play the scene you're in,

00:22:54.217 --> 00:22:56.220
"not the scene you want to be in."

00:22:56.220 --> 00:22:58.320
What they mean by that is,
if you're trying so hard

00:22:58.320 --> 00:23:01.170
to direct something without
really understanding

00:23:01.170 --> 00:23:04.290
what the flow is that you're
in, right at that moment,

00:23:04.290 --> 00:23:06.030
you're gonna end up missing opportunities.

00:23:06.030 --> 00:23:08.815
You're going to end up
potentially alienating

00:23:08.815 --> 00:23:11.850
employees or clients in the process,

00:23:11.850 --> 00:23:13.650
just because you had a destination

00:23:13.650 --> 00:23:16.110
that you were trying to get
to, when that's not the way

00:23:16.110 --> 00:23:18.110
that the world was heading at that time.

00:23:19.260 --> 00:23:21.810
- Yeah, I immediately
thought of a sales situation.

00:23:21.810 --> 00:23:25.242
So keep your business
owner hat on for a moment.

00:23:25.242 --> 00:23:30.242
You're talking to a
prospect, and the expression

00:23:31.089 --> 00:23:34.363
"Play this scene that you're
in," is that the right term?

00:23:34.363 --> 00:23:36.273
- Yes.

00:23:36.273 --> 00:23:38.910
- That you may want to
change the scenario,

00:23:38.910 --> 00:23:41.850
but by playing the scene that you're in,

00:23:41.850 --> 00:23:46.850
in what ways does that strengthen
the relationship building?

00:23:46.860 --> 00:23:49.536
In what ways does that strengthen

00:23:49.536 --> 00:23:53.310
the sales process for a better outcome?

00:23:53.310 --> 00:23:55.980
- Yeah, so the two things that
pop up there specifically are

00:23:55.980 --> 00:23:58.950
curiosity, so I may
have, as a salesperson,

00:23:58.950 --> 00:24:00.480
I may have an intent when I go in,

00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:02.940
which is to talk about X, Y, and Z,

00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:03.808
but that's not the conversation

00:24:03.808 --> 00:24:06.720
that the individual that's
in front of me wants to have.

00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:08.371
So if I'm able just to close the laptop,

00:24:08.371 --> 00:24:11.310
start asking questions, to get to the why

00:24:11.310 --> 00:24:13.950
behind what they're
asking for specifically,

00:24:13.950 --> 00:24:15.450
and then maybe be able to figure out,

00:24:15.450 --> 00:24:18.450
does what I'm offering currently align?

00:24:18.450 --> 00:24:20.490
I'm now meeting my
client where they're at,

00:24:20.490 --> 00:24:23.190
not where I'm at, or where
I'm trying to get them to

00:24:23.190 --> 00:24:25.980
ultimately, but we may end
up getting to that same spot.

00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:27.668
And it was all a matter
of just taking the time

00:24:27.668 --> 00:24:32.010
to listen, to stay curious,
to offer them solutions

00:24:32.010 --> 00:24:34.233
and suggestions that are
relevant to them right there

00:24:34.233 --> 00:24:35.910
in the moment where they are,

00:24:35.910 --> 00:24:38.400
versus what I have to offer.

00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:40.638
What I have to offer may
be the right solution.

00:24:40.638 --> 00:24:43.710
I just may not be wrapping
it in the right way.

00:24:43.710 --> 00:24:45.570
I may not be presenting
it in the right fashion.

00:24:45.570 --> 00:24:48.300
So if I can just stay curious,
show that I'm interested,

00:24:48.300 --> 00:24:49.580
if I'm listening to understand,

00:24:49.580 --> 00:24:53.040
versus listening to
respond to something else

00:24:53.040 --> 00:24:55.230
that we work through and
with clients in particular,

00:24:55.230 --> 00:24:56.812
'cause we tend to stop listening

00:24:56.812 --> 00:24:59.598
when we think we have the
gist of what's being said,

00:24:59.598 --> 00:25:02.100
and oftentimes we miss vital information.

00:25:02.100 --> 00:25:05.160
So if we're able to just
put aside the presentation,

00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:06.930
sit down and ask those questions,

00:25:06.930 --> 00:25:08.280
well, why is that important to you?

00:25:08.280 --> 00:25:10.980
What is the impact that that's
having on your organization?

00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:13.920
The more we can understand that
information is a gift to us

00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:18.240
and helps us craft how we want
to show up more effectively

00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:20.550
in that conversation,
and that's really what,

00:25:20.550 --> 00:25:22.260
and it builds trust,
at the end of the day,

00:25:22.260 --> 00:25:23.790
it shows that you are listening

00:25:23.790 --> 00:25:25.770
to what that individual wants.

00:25:25.770 --> 00:25:27.030
And they're more likely to probably

00:25:27.030 --> 00:25:29.790
A, share with you, and B,
probably utilize your service.

00:25:29.790 --> 00:25:31.950
'cause they're like, at
least somebody spent the time

00:25:31.950 --> 00:25:33.450
with me to really get to understand

00:25:33.450 --> 00:25:36.363
where my concerns were and
how best to meet those needs.

00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:41.400
- Scott, you and I had a one on one,

00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:42.870
whereas I just was interested

00:25:42.870 --> 00:25:44.580
to get to know you a bit better.

00:25:44.580 --> 00:25:46.680
It was really not my intent to invite you

00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:51.120
to be a podcast guest, but
as I got to know you better,

00:25:51.120 --> 00:25:53.516
I saw you model what you just described,

00:25:53.516 --> 00:25:58.516
and you showed curiosity, you
asked good questions of me,

00:25:59.610 --> 00:26:02.695
and you seemed very genuine
in the way you did so.

00:26:02.695 --> 00:26:06.210
You used an expression
there, a moment ago,

00:26:06.210 --> 00:26:08.580
that really stuck with me, and that is,

00:26:08.580 --> 00:26:13.050
you're in a quote presentation,
but you said sometimes

00:26:13.050 --> 00:26:16.808
what you need to do is close the laptop.

00:26:16.808 --> 00:26:20.040
That is a powerful image.

00:26:20.040 --> 00:26:25.040
But by closing the laptop,
that act alone is signaling,

00:26:26.137 --> 00:26:29.730
I'm no longer on script, I'm trying to be

00:26:29.730 --> 00:26:33.063
fully present with you
to truly understand.

00:26:34.230 --> 00:26:36.930
That struck me as just
being a powerful way

00:26:36.930 --> 00:26:40.410
to build trust, to build relationship.

00:26:40.410 --> 00:26:43.169
Whereas in that
conversation, it may be that

00:26:43.169 --> 00:26:47.343
what they need and what y'all
offer is not a good fit,

00:26:48.810 --> 00:26:51.540
but you've invested in the relationship

00:26:51.540 --> 00:26:55.860
and it may be that what you
offer is not a good fit now,

00:26:55.860 --> 00:26:58.350
but I'm intrigued by what you said,

00:26:58.350 --> 00:27:00.510
and how you said it, and
perhaps more importantly,

00:27:00.510 --> 00:27:03.575
how genuine you are in doing that.

00:27:03.575 --> 00:27:06.240
- Yeah.
- You are compelled,

00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:08.730
if you're doing sales training,

00:27:08.730 --> 00:27:11.070
to walk the talk I've heard it described,

00:27:11.070 --> 00:27:13.680
you have to kind of eat your own dog food,

00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:15.060
is what I've heard.

00:27:15.060 --> 00:27:16.620
Is what we're describing right now,

00:27:16.620 --> 00:27:19.920
is that sometimes hard
as a business owner,

00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:22.920
you wanna grow the business,
but do you find yourself

00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:26.790
having to stop and think about what is it

00:27:26.790 --> 00:27:31.383
we're trying to do, even for
your own company, Fairplay?

00:27:32.700 --> 00:27:35.264
- Yeah, yeah, that's a great question.

00:27:35.264 --> 00:27:36.630
No, well, a lot of times, again,

00:27:36.630 --> 00:27:38.310
it's a matter of testing your assumptions,

00:27:38.310 --> 00:27:40.560
like our assumption is
that it's gonna do this,

00:27:40.560 --> 00:27:42.333
and we want it to grow that way.

00:27:43.290 --> 00:27:45.600
And as long as we don't try so hard

00:27:45.600 --> 00:27:47.010
to force it in that direction,

00:27:47.010 --> 00:27:49.920
but just really pay attention
to where that's going,

00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:52.065
whether it's in an individual
conversation, one on one,

00:27:52.065 --> 00:27:55.080
whether it's in a conversation
with the potential client,

00:27:55.080 --> 00:27:56.220
whether it's in a conversation

00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:59.574
with my partners in the business,

00:27:59.574 --> 00:28:01.560
I have my ideas, I have my beliefs,

00:28:01.560 --> 00:28:03.180
and I can share those at any point.

00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:05.580
But I wanna know first
is, what's your opinion?

00:28:05.580 --> 00:28:07.860
What's your belief, where
are you coming from?

00:28:07.860 --> 00:28:08.940
And then I can align that with,

00:28:08.940 --> 00:28:11.220
well, here's the way that
I was thinking about it.

00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:12.995
We do a lot of checking in as well,

00:28:12.995 --> 00:28:14.597
when we're talking to one another.

00:28:14.597 --> 00:28:17.257
It's a matter of just
literally stopping and saying,

00:28:17.257 --> 00:28:19.950
"Okay, here's what I'm
hearing, is that correct?"

00:28:19.950 --> 00:28:22.290
Because just because I
say something doesn't mean

00:28:22.290 --> 00:28:24.720
that it's landing on me,
the way that I intended it.

00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:27.300
And so in a lot of the work that we do,

00:28:27.300 --> 00:28:28.800
a lot of what we talk about is that

00:28:28.800 --> 00:28:31.189
intention versus action
in the work that we do.

00:28:31.189 --> 00:28:35.250
My intentions are usually
how I judge myself.

00:28:35.250 --> 00:28:37.890
My actions are going
to be how you judge me.

00:28:37.890 --> 00:28:40.942
And so if those two things
don't align in the process,

00:28:40.942 --> 00:28:42.420
we have a problem, right?

00:28:42.420 --> 00:28:44.280
There's a disconnect,
there's cognitive dissonance

00:28:44.280 --> 00:28:46.560
for whether, again, whether
it's an internal conversation

00:28:46.560 --> 00:28:49.230
with an employee or a leader
or an external conversation

00:28:49.230 --> 00:28:52.512
with a vendor partner
or a potential client,

00:28:52.512 --> 00:28:56.114
how we show up, how we interact

00:28:56.114 --> 00:28:59.727
every which way, nonverbals,
showing up on time

00:28:59.727 --> 00:29:02.190
for the meeting, what
contents we bring forward,

00:29:02.190 --> 00:29:06.720
how we have that conversation,
all of those things are clues

00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:08.943
for the individual that
we're speaking with.

00:29:09.780 --> 00:29:11.760
If you come in and you wanna
steamroll the conversation,

00:29:11.760 --> 00:29:13.500
you can do that, but
you're just shutting down

00:29:13.500 --> 00:29:15.675
the conversation and it
becomes more of a monologue

00:29:15.675 --> 00:29:19.050
than it does really a
dialogue between people

00:29:19.050 --> 00:29:22.560
trying to understand and
get to a common place,

00:29:22.560 --> 00:29:24.900
for lack of a better way to say it.

00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:26.477
And it's just vitally important

00:29:26.477 --> 00:29:29.015
that it's like, okay, I
know what my position is,

00:29:29.015 --> 00:29:31.175
but I'm gonna be better
off if I understand yours.

00:29:31.175 --> 00:29:36.175
I'll tell you one more
of the improv axioms,

00:29:37.358 --> 00:29:40.470
again using that word, but
that's sort of what they are,

00:29:40.470 --> 00:29:43.320
is this concept of "Follow the follower."

00:29:43.320 --> 00:29:46.200
Follow the follower is, sometimes I lead,

00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:48.900
and sometimes I follow, but there's really

00:29:48.900 --> 00:29:50.580
no designation point to say, okay,

00:29:50.580 --> 00:29:52.380
now you're leading, now you're following.

00:29:52.380 --> 00:29:55.500
So it's a matter of being
present, being others-focused,

00:29:55.500 --> 00:29:58.860
being there in the flow of the
conversation or of the moment

00:29:58.860 --> 00:30:00.420
or whatever else it is to understand,

00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:01.830
I need to step forward at this point,

00:30:01.830 --> 00:30:04.380
'cause it's now my turn,
or I need to step back

00:30:04.380 --> 00:30:06.990
because I need to allow that other person

00:30:06.990 --> 00:30:09.390
their space to show up
the way that they need to.

00:30:09.390 --> 00:30:10.860
And then we try to figure it out together.

00:30:10.860 --> 00:30:13.500
Like here's what I heard,
this is how I'm gonna

00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:15.360
support that in some way, shape or form.

00:30:15.360 --> 00:30:18.510
And we're focused on what's
good for the collective good

00:30:18.510 --> 00:30:19.920
rather than what's just good for me

00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:22.440
or good for my business or whatever else,

00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:24.270
it's gonna be a much more
productive conversation.

00:30:24.270 --> 00:30:27.240
And not only there in
the moment, but ongoing,

00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:31.080
that longevity of that
relationship will increase

00:30:31.080 --> 00:30:33.870
and blossom just based on the
opportunity to spend time.

00:30:33.870 --> 00:30:35.430
And it's like, this person
genuinely wants to hear

00:30:35.430 --> 00:30:37.620
what I say, cares about what I'm saying,

00:30:37.620 --> 00:30:41.040
and responds in kind, and
that that'll grow your trust

00:30:41.040 --> 00:30:46.040
and your loyalty from consumers
or employees, in an instant.

00:30:47.430 --> 00:30:50.610
- Yes, you shared a little
bit about starting a business.

00:30:50.610 --> 00:30:54.690
One of the things a co-founder
has to do is pick a name

00:30:54.690 --> 00:30:56.880
for your business.
- Ah.

00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:00.840
- Fairplay Communications,
what's behind that name?

00:31:00.840 --> 00:31:04.139
- Ooh, that's a really tough
and a very good question.

00:31:04.139 --> 00:31:06.720
We went through quite a few iterations

00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:08.340
of what we were gonna call ourselves,

00:31:08.340 --> 00:31:11.122
but there's an element in what we do,

00:31:11.122 --> 00:31:14.760
particularly as it relates
to the improv world of play.

00:31:14.760 --> 00:31:16.343
And we talk about play a lot of times,

00:31:16.343 --> 00:31:19.740
in the work that we do, and
I know it can be a taboo word

00:31:19.740 --> 00:31:21.600
in the corporate world, and by playing,

00:31:21.600 --> 00:31:23.910
we don't mean, it's constructive play.

00:31:23.910 --> 00:31:26.040
It's play around, allowing yourself

00:31:26.040 --> 00:31:29.305
to free up from maybe
those ties that bind you

00:31:29.305 --> 00:31:31.987
in that corporate space
or whatever else it is.

00:31:31.987 --> 00:31:35.490
And you're hearing it everywhere right now

00:31:35.490 --> 00:31:38.874
in terms of, you know, DEI,
or just equity in general,

00:31:38.874 --> 00:31:41.460
there's a fairness that
has to be balanced.

00:31:41.460 --> 00:31:43.950
And this goes back to that
follow the follower thing.

00:31:43.950 --> 00:31:45.480
Sometimes I'm gonna be the leader,

00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:46.770
and sometimes I'm gonna have to follow,

00:31:46.770 --> 00:31:50.850
and we need to be fair in how
we allow others to show up,

00:31:50.850 --> 00:31:53.964
how we make assumptions, and ideas about

00:31:53.964 --> 00:31:56.880
certain situations or whatever else it is.

00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:59.542
So it was really just kind of an organic,

00:31:59.542 --> 00:32:01.500
well, it needs to be fair, it needs to be

00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:03.649
a fair playing ground,
but we also need to play.

00:32:03.649 --> 00:32:06.420
And so those two elements
kind of came together.

00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:09.090
We had a lot of other
big, long list of names

00:32:09.090 --> 00:32:11.070
that we were gonna go by,
but Fairplay just bit.

00:32:11.070 --> 00:32:12.307
And as soon as we hit it, we're like,

00:32:12.307 --> 00:32:13.743
"That's it," it just stuck.

00:32:15.120 --> 00:32:17.400
- As it should, it's a perfect name.

00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:20.670
Scott, as you look back on your career,

00:32:20.670 --> 00:32:22.923
perhaps even with Fairplay,
can you think of an example

00:32:22.923 --> 00:32:26.100
where either you or a client got stuck,

00:32:26.100 --> 00:32:28.980
and when that happened, what
did it take to get unstuck?

00:32:28.980 --> 00:32:33.980
- Yeah, I mean the simplest
form that I could say is

00:32:33.990 --> 00:32:36.690
that we used to have, and
this happened a lot, actually.

00:32:36.690 --> 00:32:37.980
We would have clients that were coming in,

00:32:37.980 --> 00:32:41.910
looking to do, maybe they
didn't fully understand

00:32:41.910 --> 00:32:44.790
the impact of what the
sessions could have for them.

00:32:44.790 --> 00:32:46.770
And we would have stakeholders

00:32:46.770 --> 00:32:47.977
that would come in and say,

00:32:47.977 --> 00:32:51.997
"This team that you're gonna
be working with is dealing with

00:32:51.997 --> 00:32:55.207
"X or Y concerns right
now, and that's really

00:32:55.207 --> 00:32:56.547
"what we need to focus in on."

00:32:56.547 --> 00:32:58.860
And so that we would design programming

00:32:58.860 --> 00:33:01.920
that would get at conversations
around those things.

00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:02.801
We would never come in and say,

00:33:02.801 --> 00:33:05.293
we're gonna have a conversation around,

00:33:05.293 --> 00:33:06.612
let's say it was trust.

00:33:06.612 --> 00:33:08.227
We would never say like,

00:33:08.227 --> 00:33:10.440
"We're gonna have a conversation
around trust today."

00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:13.050
We would build exercises
that would lead organically

00:33:13.050 --> 00:33:15.420
to having a conversation about trust.

00:33:15.420 --> 00:33:17.250
And oftentimes what we would find is,

00:33:17.250 --> 00:33:19.800
that trust really wasn't the issue.

00:33:19.800 --> 00:33:21.630
There was something else
that was underlying,

00:33:21.630 --> 00:33:23.579
that was confounding
that trust to begin with.

00:33:23.579 --> 00:33:27.060
And being able to unearth that
and get to those insights,

00:33:27.060 --> 00:33:29.674
so that the client themselves
could better understand

00:33:29.674 --> 00:33:33.540
how to make this team more cohesive,

00:33:33.540 --> 00:33:35.550
say, for example, and I'm using
this in the teaming sense,

00:33:35.550 --> 00:33:37.080
not in the leadership
or in the sales sense,

00:33:37.080 --> 00:33:42.080
but in those instances, being
able to create that space

00:33:42.630 --> 00:33:44.281
for people to have that dialogue is really

00:33:44.281 --> 00:33:46.530
what helped them to get unstuck,

00:33:46.530 --> 00:33:47.700
because they didn't realize that

00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:49.440
they were having a communication blockade,

00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.110
whether it was between
management and employee,

00:33:52.110 --> 00:33:54.346
or even just amongst the employee group.

00:33:54.346 --> 00:33:56.401
And so it got everybody on the same page,

00:33:56.401 --> 00:33:58.935
it would allow them, it would allow

00:33:58.935 --> 00:34:02.250
a checking of the assumptions
by the leadership team

00:34:02.250 --> 00:34:04.393
or the stakeholders, but
then it would allow a voice

00:34:04.393 --> 00:34:07.754
for the people that were
impacted by this issue,

00:34:07.754 --> 00:34:10.020
mostly to really kind of share

00:34:10.020 --> 00:34:11.970
and to create a conversation around

00:34:11.970 --> 00:34:13.380
what does great look like?

00:34:13.380 --> 00:34:14.490
Here's where we are.

00:34:14.490 --> 00:34:17.201
If we wanna get to this, if we
wanna go from good to great,

00:34:17.201 --> 00:34:19.348
thank you Mr. Collins, but if we wanna get

00:34:19.348 --> 00:34:21.960
from good to great, how do we do that?

00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:24.510
And honestly, oftentimes they already

00:34:24.510 --> 00:34:25.620
had the answer themselves.

00:34:25.620 --> 00:34:27.607
They didn't need some leader
to come down on them and say,

00:34:27.607 --> 00:34:28.800
"This is how we're gonna be great."

00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:30.930
It was well, how do you all feel

00:34:30.930 --> 00:34:33.060
about us creating this greatness?

00:34:33.060 --> 00:34:34.170
And what does that look like?

00:34:34.170 --> 00:34:36.090
And that really would get people unstuck,

00:34:36.090 --> 00:34:37.890
because they realize like, as a leader,

00:34:37.890 --> 00:34:39.240
I don't have to have all the answers.

00:34:39.240 --> 00:34:41.970
The team probably has a lot
of those answers themselves,

00:34:41.970 --> 00:34:43.228
'cause they're having the same concerns.

00:34:43.228 --> 00:34:45.000
So we just need to create a place

00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:46.860
or forum for them to be able to have

00:34:46.860 --> 00:34:48.690
that conversation and that dialogue.

00:34:48.690 --> 00:34:52.380
And that was oftentimes
enough to just jar them loose

00:34:52.380 --> 00:34:53.938
from a particular way
of thinking or being,

00:34:53.938 --> 00:34:57.150
or seeing the world and open their eyes

00:34:57.150 --> 00:34:59.010
to other possibilities or solutions

00:34:59.010 --> 00:35:02.133
or options that included
everybody in the process.

00:35:03.330 --> 00:35:06.360
- Scott, I've asked that
question of each of my guests.

00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:08.636
That's one of the best
responses I've ever heard.

00:35:08.636 --> 00:35:10.833
It really resonated with me.

00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:14.430
As you reflect on this
conversation we've had,

00:35:14.430 --> 00:35:17.763
what do you want our listeners
to have as takeaways?

00:35:19.080 --> 00:35:21.087
- Yeah, that's a really good question.

00:35:21.087 --> 00:35:23.913
I think when we first started Fairplay,

00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:27.300
if you would ask me and
I responded instantly,

00:35:27.300 --> 00:35:28.980
like, what is the purpose of Fairplay?

00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:30.720
What is it that you're trying to do?

00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:33.360
And we really talked about,
how do you give a voice

00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:36.480
to the voiceless and that isn't ultimately

00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:39.783
where we are at now, but it's
a component of what it is.

00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:44.432
So understanding that you really can't,

00:35:44.432 --> 00:35:47.114
why, if you have a thousand
people in your company,

00:35:47.114 --> 00:35:50.670
why would you not try to
activate all 1000 of those brains

00:35:50.670 --> 00:35:52.830
to create something amazing and special?

00:35:52.830 --> 00:35:54.380
Now grant you, you're in an organization,

00:35:54.380 --> 00:35:56.220
50,000 people that are global.

00:35:56.220 --> 00:35:57.720
It's a little bit more
difficult to do that.

00:35:57.720 --> 00:36:00.180
You can do it more regionally.

00:36:00.180 --> 00:36:02.460
You can do it more in smaller focuses.

00:36:02.460 --> 00:36:04.290
And the business still
has its responsibility

00:36:04.290 --> 00:36:06.870
to its shareholders and
it still has to grow

00:36:06.870 --> 00:36:11.440
and do certain things, but
if you are making strategy

00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:15.279
at the top that is designed
to maximize shareholder value

00:36:15.279 --> 00:36:18.330
and the people that have to
actually carry that out for you

00:36:18.330 --> 00:36:19.590
really don't have a say in it,

00:36:19.590 --> 00:36:22.290
particularly if that's
not what they're hearing

00:36:22.290 --> 00:36:24.000
on the street, whether it's internally,

00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:25.963
from their employees, or
externally from their clients,

00:36:25.963 --> 00:36:27.930
why wouldn't you try to gather that data

00:36:27.930 --> 00:36:29.190
as much as you possibly could?

00:36:29.190 --> 00:36:31.770
So, what we're really
trying to do is help people

00:36:31.770 --> 00:36:33.750
to become more flexible
in how they show up,

00:36:33.750 --> 00:36:38.750
how they grab information,
or, elicit information

00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:42.390
from others and use that as a marker of,

00:36:42.390 --> 00:36:43.590
maybe it's not the right answer.

00:36:43.590 --> 00:36:45.360
Maybe it's not the right solution,

00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:47.910
but you don't know that until
it surfaces, to understand.

00:36:47.910 --> 00:36:48.960
And maybe there's a component of it

00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:53.520
that will blend into and lead
into a bigger, better solution

00:36:53.520 --> 00:36:55.230
that's going to be right
for your clients, right?

00:36:55.230 --> 00:36:56.100
For your leadership, right?

00:36:56.100 --> 00:36:58.290
For your shareholders,
right, for your employees,

00:36:58.290 --> 00:36:59.250
and it can be all the way through.

00:36:59.250 --> 00:37:02.133
So I guess the thing
that I would say is that,

00:37:02.979 --> 00:37:06.480
the more voices you can
include in understanding

00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:09.300
what's really orienting your business,

00:37:09.300 --> 00:37:11.348
the better off you're gonna be.

00:37:11.348 --> 00:37:13.650
- Mm, excellent.

00:37:13.650 --> 00:37:17.220
Scott, for those who want
to learn more from you,

00:37:17.220 --> 00:37:18.450
what's the best way for people

00:37:18.450 --> 00:37:20.760
to reach out and connect with you?

00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:22.672
- So we definitely can go
to the website, obviously.

00:37:22.672 --> 00:37:26.340
So FairplayCommunications.com.

00:37:26.340 --> 00:37:28.680
I'm scott@fairplaycommunications.com.

00:37:28.680 --> 00:37:30.780
Anybody's welcome to reach
out to me and ask questions.

00:37:30.780 --> 00:37:33.900
We're on LinkedIn, we're on Facebook,

00:37:33.900 --> 00:37:35.970
we're on Instagram, we're on Twitter.

00:37:35.970 --> 00:37:38.280
So any of your favorite social modalities

00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:40.815
that you're interested
in, you can find us there.

00:37:40.815 --> 00:37:43.440
I'll even give people
my cell phone number,

00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:44.610
they can call me when they want.

00:37:44.610 --> 00:37:47.580
I mean, we are very passionate
about the work that we do.

00:37:47.580 --> 00:37:50.370
And there are many other companies

00:37:50.370 --> 00:37:51.690
that I'm sure that we
could have formulated

00:37:51.690 --> 00:37:54.177
or started that would've
been a lot easier to do,

00:37:54.177 --> 00:37:56.370
particularly in the time of a pandemic,

00:37:56.370 --> 00:37:58.200
but this is where our passion lies,

00:37:58.200 --> 00:37:59.940
and this is what we want
to do and want to be,

00:37:59.940 --> 00:38:01.080
and want to bring to the world.

00:38:01.080 --> 00:38:02.850
And how do we share that experience,

00:38:02.850 --> 00:38:03.930
and help others learn from that?

00:38:03.930 --> 00:38:06.570
And that's really what we're trying to do.

00:38:06.570 --> 00:38:08.653
- Scott, that came through loud and clear

00:38:08.653 --> 00:38:10.923
with our time together, thank you.

00:38:11.970 --> 00:38:13.500
- I appreciate it, Mike, thank you so much

00:38:13.500 --> 00:38:15.846
for taking the time, this was great.

00:38:15.846 --> 00:38:19.590
- I also want to thank our
listeners for joining us today.

00:38:19.590 --> 00:38:21.810
We upload the latest episode to Apple

00:38:21.810 --> 00:38:24.450
and Google and Spotify every Thursday.

00:38:24.450 --> 00:38:26.280
So if you've enjoyed this episode

00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:28.439
with Scott, please subscribe.

00:38:28.439 --> 00:38:31.530
Is your company growing quickly?

00:38:31.530 --> 00:38:33.723
Are you worried that you
don't have the right people

00:38:33.723 --> 00:38:37.383
and processes in place to
handle the increased workload?

00:38:37.383 --> 00:38:41.880
If yes, let's talk, head
to Bench-Builders.com

00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:43.440
to schedule a quick call.

00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:47.010
We'll explore ways to help you
solve those nagging problems

00:38:47.010 --> 00:38:50.820
so you can scale faster and smarter.

00:38:50.820 --> 00:38:53.010
So I wanna thank you for joining us,

00:38:53.010 --> 00:38:55.450
and I hope you have picked
up on some tips from Scott

00:38:55.450 --> 00:39:00.330
that will help you get
unstuck and on target.

00:39:00.330 --> 00:39:03.493
Until next time.
(upbeat music)