May 26

Episode 76: Get Results with Referral Partnerships with Thomas Gilman

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In this week’s episode, Mike and guest Thomas Gilman discuss how to get results by using referral partnerships. Thomas is a strategic partner with Schooley Mitchell. He helps clients manage their costs on an ongoing basis in the areas of utilities, telecom, fleet management, merchant services, eSignature, small package shipping, and waste disposal. 

Thomas Gilman‘s Biography

Thomas is a Strategic Partner with Schooley Mitchell. He helps clients manage their costs on an ongoing basis in the areas of Utilities, Telecom, Fleet Management, Merchant Services, e-Signature, Small Package Shipping, and Waste Disposal. Thomas is a Chemical Engineer with an MBA. He has 39 years of in-depth experience in Operations, Project Engineering, Economic Analysis, Planning, Strategy, and Audit. 

In This Episode, You’ll Learn…

  • Do you think that word-of-mouth marketing is dead?
  • How to add savings to your bottom line.
  • Is there a number of referral partners you should have?
  • How many one-on-ones you can handle a week.

Quotables

  • “I’m looking for ways that my business can help yours because it’s just natural to have a back and forth when you establish a referral partnership.” Thomas Gilman
  • “The thing about referrals is if they don’t know me or trust me, there’s gotta be a catch, it sounds kinda wonky, why haven’t I heard about this before?” Thomas Gilman
  • “LinkedIn is a powerful tool for business owners, and business leaders because you can connect, but simply being connected doesn’t necessarily mean you’re in a relationship.” Mike O’Neill
  • “The suggestion that I was reading is the importance of communicating regularly.” Mike O’Neill
  •  “If you’re gonna be in a referral partnership relationship, you have to be intentional with communication.” Thomas Gilman

Links & Resources Mentioned…

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Read The Transcript

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(upbeat music)

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- Welcome back to the "Get
Unstuck & On Target" podcast.

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I'm Mike O'Neill with Bench Builders,

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and we love helping
business leaders like you

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solve the tough people
and process problems

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that may be slowing your company's growth.

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Joining me today from
Houston is Thomas Gilman.

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Thomas is a strategic partner
with Schooley Mitchell.

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He helps clients manage their costs

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on an ongoing basis in
the areas of utilities,

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telecom, fleet management,

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merchant services, eSignature,

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small package shipping,
and waste disposal.

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Thomas is a chemical engineer

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by trading with an MBA,

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and he has nearly 40 years
of in-depth experience

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at operations, project engineering,

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economic analysis,

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planning, strategy, and audit.

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Welcome Thomas.

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- Hey, it's great to be here.

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Thanks for inviting me.

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- I'm looking forward to our conversation

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because quite frankly,

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it is simply a continuation
of a conversation

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that you and I started about two,

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maybe three weeks ago.

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Let me see if I can set this up.

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- Okay.

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- Thomas and I connected on LinkedIn

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and what rather than just say,

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all right, I'm glad I
have you as a connection,

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we set up a one on one conversation.

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I forgot who initiated it.

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But after that conversation,

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there seemed to be enough interest

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to continue that conversation,

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and that in large part is
the topic for this podcast,

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and that is we have begun exploring

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how can my business Bench Builders

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help Thomas's business Schooley Mitchell,

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and what does that look like?

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And so we really are just in

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that early stage of the conversation,

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but I thought, man, this
is going on everywhere.

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I came across a statistic,

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may I share this with you, Thomas?

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And it's really was talking about

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the question of word of mouth marketing,

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and here's the statistic I came up with.

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"Did you think that word
of mouth marketing is dead?

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Think again, according to Nielsen,

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92% of consumers say that

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they trust recommendations
from people in their network,

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more than any other source.

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And when applied to
your business practices,

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referral partnerships are essential

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to continued growth."

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Do you agree with Nielsen?

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- Yeah, I sure do.

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It's funny that you said

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that you're looking for ways

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for your business to help mine,

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but at the same time,

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I'm looking for ways that
my business can help yours,

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because it's just natural

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to have a back and forth

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when you establish a referral partnership.

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But yeah, my business

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is referral based,

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so it's so crucial to have

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the person that you're talking to,

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that you're trying to get

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to use your services, trust you.

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And you can establish that trust

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over a series of five to
seven or eight meetings,

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where they get to know you,

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and then they finally get comfortable,

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and they sign up,

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or plan B,

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they can have somebody that they trust,

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introduce you and say,

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"yeah, Tom's a good guy.

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See if you'd like to
do business with him."

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That saves not only
the time, that's great,

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but a lot of times that is what drives

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the decision for them
to go ahead and sign up.

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And I can get into why it's real easy

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to sign up with me,

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but only if you trust me,

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because in my business
it doesn't cost anything

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to quote hire me because we will

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take a look at your cost

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with no fee.

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Basically what we do is

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we take a look at it,

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we propose how we would
save a client money,

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and then we show them the answer

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of how we would do that.

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And only when they say,

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"yeah, go ahead and implement that."

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do we take a fee out of

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what we've implemented for them.

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So it's always cash flow positive.

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The thing about referrals is

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if they don't know me or trust me,

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there's gotta be a catch,

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it sounds kinda wonky,

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why haven't I heard about this before?

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How come I've never heard of

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the company Schooley Mitchell,

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you know a lot of people haven't.

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And so when I get a referral,

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a lot of times they'll sign up

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before I'm ready for them to,

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I'm into my, here's what we do,

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and they say, "you know what?

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Bobby said you're a good
guy, let's just do it."

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And I'm like, okay, I'm
gonna stop selling now,

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and I'm just gonna sign you up.

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It's just the greatest thing,

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and that's all because of referrals,

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really good referrals.

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- That's a great explanation

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of what your company does,

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and my intro described a little bit

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about your background and why you would be

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an excellent person who could get

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into some of these technical areas.

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Let's go back to how you and I first met,

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it was via LinkedIn.

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And LinkedIn is a powerful tool

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for business owners,

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business leaders,

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because you can connect,

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but simply being connected

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doesn't necessarily mean
you're in relationship.

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- Yeah.

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- And that was something
that impressed me,

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when you and I had our first conversation

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it was just that,

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we really didn't spend as much time

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talking about Schooley
Mitchell or Bench Builders,

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we got to know each other better.

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- Yeah.

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- And that just struck me as,

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by me investing in that
relationship being Thomas,

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it may be that no business comes of that,

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but I would have a new
friend in Houston, Texas.

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- Right.

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- But as the conversation continued on,

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I was learning more and more things

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of what you do that I said to myself,

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goodness gracious,

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I've got clients that
need to know about Thomas.

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And if that is the case,

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I would be willing obviously,

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to do that very thing.

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You mentioned that a lot of your business

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is referral business,

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that applies to us.

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When you get a referral and you go in,

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and you begin describing your services

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and they almost cut you off,

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that really is a great way

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to kind of fast track the sales process.

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Is it not?

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- Yeah. Sometimes if you,

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I just juxtapose not having a referral

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versus having a referral
is like day in night.

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So not having a referral,

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even if you kind of know them

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and they're friendly,

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they're still gonna
have a lot of hesitation

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because they don't know,

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there's a lot of unknowns,

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and if they have a referral,

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all those are put aside

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because a trusted person
has vouched for you.

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And that's the difference

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between a cold call or what
feels like a cold call,

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and a warm introduction,

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which is feeling like
you're doing business

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with someone you've known a while.

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And so regardless of size of company.

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So a lot of times you go
to a mom-and-pop shop,

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they'll be hesitant,

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because they see sales
people and it's like,

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"okay, what are you trying to do?"

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But if you have a referral,

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they're more willing to sign up.

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When you have a referral
at a large company,

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that person is the decision maker,

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because the referral person

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knows who to refer you to.

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You don't have to search through

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the whole labyrinth of that large company.

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Is it the purchasing manager?

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Is it the finance manager?

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Is it the CEO?

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That referral says,

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"I know who makes that decision?

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Let me introduce you to them."

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Saving all that time of fishing

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through who to talk to.

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So yeah, the referrals
help in so many ways

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that I don't think I really do business

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without them anymore.

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It's kind of like,

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I have enough referrals
and referral partners,

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and I will get into referral partners.

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I have enough that it's kind of

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like my marketing arm now.

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- You made a comment in
our first conversation

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that picked up in our second conversation,

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and it went something like this,

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"Mike, as I've gotta
know you and what you do,

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I want to be in a position

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that if I hear that there is a need,

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I can make that referral,

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but I'm making it from not just a,

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'hey, you need to talk
to my friend, Mike,'

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but it's a much more informed referral."

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- Yeah.

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- Prior to us scheduling
this podcast recording,

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I went and googled referral partnerships,

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just to kind of see what do people say

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is a critical part.

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You haven't seen this, haven't heard this,

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but let me just throw out to you

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some of the things that I've read and see,

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to what extent you
would agree or disagree.

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Is it important in your opinion,

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if you're gonna have a referral
partnership relationship,

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to really understand needs?

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- Yeah, the more you do,

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the better you can have that partnership.

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- So those needs would be, what?

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You would if I was asking you,

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I would try to get a better understanding,

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what would be an ideal
type of client for you?

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- Yeah, what would be an ideal client?

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Either geographically, size,

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What kind of industries are there?

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What the marketing people call verticals

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that you're targeting.

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All that really helps to understand

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what your ideal client is.

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Knowing the ideal client allows you

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to look at people that you run into

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as a difference from that ideal,

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you've got the ideal clear in your head,

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and it's so much easier

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to differentiate who you're talking to

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from that ideal than it is

256
00:09:56,070 --> 00:09:59,870
to add up everything that that client is.

257
00:09:59,870 --> 00:10:01,360
So basically what I'm saying is

258
00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,237
by difference, you can say,

259
00:10:03,237 --> 00:10:05,930
"yeah, this one is very
close to their ideal,

260
00:10:05,930 --> 00:10:07,270
and I think the differences

261
00:10:07,270 --> 00:10:09,570
are not gonna be significant,

262
00:10:09,570 --> 00:10:14,360
and this would be a
good referral for Mike."

263
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:15,740
For instance.

264
00:10:15,740 --> 00:10:19,330
- This next bullet came
through loud and clear

265
00:10:19,330 --> 00:10:21,000
as a result of our conversations,

266
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:22,790
and that as we made a commitment

267
00:10:22,790 --> 00:10:25,130
after the first conversation,

268
00:10:25,130 --> 00:10:27,110
to have a second conversation.

269
00:10:27,110 --> 00:10:27,943
- Right

270
00:10:27,943 --> 00:10:30,800
- And more often not after one-on-one,

271
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,350
I forget, I get distracted,

272
00:10:33,350 --> 00:10:35,520
and there's not a second conversation.

273
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,130
And I think we scheduled
it right then and there,

274
00:10:38,130 --> 00:10:39,970
let's get back together a week from now

275
00:10:39,970 --> 00:10:42,360
to continue this conversation.

276
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,590
The suggestion that I was reading

277
00:10:44,590 --> 00:10:48,090
is the importance of
communicating regularly.

278
00:10:48,090 --> 00:10:51,390
If you're gonna be in a referral
partnership relationship,

279
00:10:51,390 --> 00:10:53,740
you have to be intentional
with communication.

280
00:10:53,740 --> 00:10:55,510
Have you found that to be the case?

281
00:10:55,510 --> 00:10:57,240
- Yeah, that's such a good point.

282
00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,350
You know, as with anyone,

283
00:10:59,350 --> 00:11:00,470
when I first started out,

284
00:11:00,470 --> 00:11:04,410
I thought the more referral
partners, the better.

285
00:11:04,410 --> 00:11:06,200
Well, unfortunately there's only

286
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:07,580
so many hours in a day,

287
00:11:07,580 --> 00:11:10,330
and you can't have a
thousand referral partners

288
00:11:10,330 --> 00:11:11,700
because you'll only talk to them

289
00:11:11,700 --> 00:11:12,933
once every four years.

290
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,430
What's a better situation

291
00:11:15,430 --> 00:11:18,180
is fewer deeper relationships.

292
00:11:18,180 --> 00:11:19,940
So that like you and I

293
00:11:19,940 --> 00:11:22,390
were talking on a regular basis,

294
00:11:22,390 --> 00:11:26,900
I would say monthly or
every six weeks at the most,

295
00:11:26,900 --> 00:11:29,540
so that it's cumulative,

296
00:11:29,540 --> 00:11:31,450
rather than restarting every time.

297
00:11:31,450 --> 00:11:34,840
Like if you talk to
somebody once a quarter

298
00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:36,660
or once every half a year,

299
00:11:36,660 --> 00:11:39,270
you're barely gonna remember
what they look like.

300
00:11:39,270 --> 00:11:42,100
But if you talk to 'em
monthly or every six weeks,

301
00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:43,780
then you can build on what you've done.

302
00:11:43,780 --> 00:11:44,613
You can say,

303
00:11:44,613 --> 00:11:46,980
hey, we talked about doing X,

304
00:11:46,980 --> 00:11:47,960
and if it happened, great,

305
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,580
you can celebrate it or maybe tweak it,

306
00:11:50,580 --> 00:11:52,518
or if it didn't happen, why didn't?

307
00:11:52,518 --> 00:11:54,900
why didn't something we thought

308
00:11:54,900 --> 00:11:57,070
was gonna be great happen.

309
00:11:57,070 --> 00:11:59,391
And you can do that before it's so long

310
00:11:59,391 --> 00:12:01,340
that both of you forget about it.

311
00:12:01,340 --> 00:12:03,810
And so it keeps the ball rolling,

312
00:12:03,810 --> 00:12:05,487
I guess is another way to put it.

313
00:12:07,380 --> 00:12:08,750
- Thomas, one of the things you said

314
00:12:08,750 --> 00:12:11,380
that really struck me is

315
00:12:11,380 --> 00:12:15,700
you and your company work with clients

316
00:12:15,700 --> 00:12:17,410
and you don't get a dime

317
00:12:17,410 --> 00:12:19,913
until you demonstrated savings.

318
00:12:19,913 --> 00:12:21,468
- And implement them.

319
00:12:21,468 --> 00:12:23,140
- And implement them.

320
00:12:23,140 --> 00:12:23,973
- Yeah.

321
00:12:23,973 --> 00:12:25,060
- And you said something

322
00:12:25,060 --> 00:12:28,837
that really caught my
attention, and that is,

323
00:12:28,837 --> 00:12:30,947
"with those savings,"

324
00:12:32,150 --> 00:12:35,050
you said, "maybe this would be the way

325
00:12:35,050 --> 00:12:37,180
that they would fund

326
00:12:37,180 --> 00:12:38,880
doing work with Bench Builders."

327
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:39,713
- Right.

328
00:12:39,713 --> 00:12:42,250
- "Using them for their
management training needs,

329
00:12:42,250 --> 00:12:45,041
or executive coaching needs, or the like."

330
00:12:45,041 --> 00:12:45,930
- Yeah.

331
00:12:45,930 --> 00:12:46,910
- And I kind of go,

332
00:12:46,910 --> 00:12:48,460
how generous for you to say that.

333
00:12:48,460 --> 00:12:49,660
And that is the savings

334
00:12:49,660 --> 00:12:52,490
that you put on their bottom line,

335
00:12:52,490 --> 00:12:53,720
you might be able to say,

336
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,220
with that savings,

337
00:12:55,220 --> 00:12:57,143
would you have a need for?

338
00:12:57,143 --> 00:12:58,460
- Yeah.

339
00:12:58,460 --> 00:13:01,420
- And by you connecting those two things,

340
00:13:01,420 --> 00:13:03,853
kinda light bulbs went off with me,

341
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,780
that your heart's in the right place.

342
00:13:07,780 --> 00:13:09,600
Your desire to really invest

343
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,840
in the relationship was there,

344
00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:13,660
and when you said that, I kind of go,

345
00:13:13,660 --> 00:13:14,880
all right, Thomas,

346
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,010
you and I, we're gonna be friends,

347
00:13:18,010 --> 00:13:20,306
and hopefully we can be business partners.

348
00:13:20,306 --> 00:13:21,300
- Yeah.

349
00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:23,120
- The next bullet talked about

350
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,090
strengths should
compliment the weaknesses,

351
00:13:26,090 --> 00:13:29,730
meaning what you do is
nothing like what I do.

352
00:13:29,730 --> 00:13:30,680
Correct?
- That's exactly.

353
00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:31,513
Right.

354
00:13:31,513 --> 00:13:33,810
And that's what's great about it is

355
00:13:33,810 --> 00:13:36,323
when a client needs help,

356
00:13:37,290 --> 00:13:39,810
they're probably gonna need both of us

357
00:13:39,810 --> 00:13:41,360
to have the optimal solution,

358
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:45,090
like they can do better
on cost with me alone,

359
00:13:45,090 --> 00:13:46,170
and they can do better

360
00:13:46,170 --> 00:13:48,610
on their management
approach with you alone,

361
00:13:48,610 --> 00:13:50,690
but if they use both of us,

362
00:13:50,690 --> 00:13:53,130
then they are so much farther ahead

363
00:13:53,130 --> 00:13:54,270
than just one of us.

364
00:13:54,270 --> 00:13:59,080
And so that's a great
complimentary referral partnership,

365
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,220
and the reason that it may sound generous,

366
00:14:02,220 --> 00:14:04,893
but when I'm proposing,

367
00:14:04,893 --> 00:14:07,670
they use the money that I save them

368
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:10,460
to pay for your services,

369
00:14:10,460 --> 00:14:12,310
it's that I've I identified

370
00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:15,280
and they're open to further

371
00:14:17,380 --> 00:14:19,280
improving their business

372
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:20,610
by using your services.

373
00:14:20,610 --> 00:14:22,164
And so it, I don't feel like,

374
00:14:22,164 --> 00:14:24,900
sure, I'm a generous guy like everybody,

375
00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:27,740
but I'm also a business person,

376
00:14:27,740 --> 00:14:30,020
and I feel like if I do that

377
00:14:30,020 --> 00:14:31,690
and you come in and you wow them,

378
00:14:31,690 --> 00:14:33,150
like I know you will,

379
00:14:33,150 --> 00:14:34,640
then that reflects well on me

380
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,490
because introduce you to them.

381
00:14:37,490 --> 00:14:39,580
And so it's kind like a win, win, win,

382
00:14:39,580 --> 00:14:42,130
you get a client, I get a client,

383
00:14:42,130 --> 00:14:44,630
the client gets business improvement.

384
00:14:44,630 --> 00:14:47,763
And I love that win-win kind
of approach to business.

385
00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:51,260
- We haven't discussed this yet,

386
00:14:51,260 --> 00:14:55,510
but some referral
partnerships are formalized.

387
00:14:55,510 --> 00:14:58,370
Whereas if I referred someone in

388
00:14:58,370 --> 00:14:59,800
and it results in business,

389
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:04,250
there is essentially a
referral fee extended.

390
00:15:04,250 --> 00:15:05,820
And I'm not frowning on that,

391
00:15:05,820 --> 00:15:08,050
there are a number of situations,

392
00:15:08,050 --> 00:15:12,400
this came up in a conversation
I had yesterday afternoon.

393
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:13,870
The nature of their work,

394
00:15:13,870 --> 00:15:15,720
it just lends itself.

395
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,570
You and I did not discuss that,

396
00:15:17,570 --> 00:15:19,410
it doesn't preclude that,

397
00:15:19,410 --> 00:15:22,060
but my sense is is that we would have

398
00:15:22,060 --> 00:15:25,630
more of an informal arrangement.

399
00:15:25,630 --> 00:15:26,770
But speak to that,

400
00:15:26,770 --> 00:15:27,750
What are your thoughts on that?

401
00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:28,666
- Yeah, sure.

402
00:15:28,666 --> 00:15:31,250
Schooley Mitchell is a big proponent

403
00:15:31,250 --> 00:15:32,990
of paid referral relationships

404
00:15:32,990 --> 00:15:34,710
when they make sense.

405
00:15:34,710 --> 00:15:37,990
A lot of times my approach is

406
00:15:37,990 --> 00:15:40,140
let's establish the personal relationship

407
00:15:40,140 --> 00:15:42,450
with the referral partner first,

408
00:15:42,450 --> 00:15:44,270
gain trust with each other

409
00:15:44,270 --> 00:15:46,703
and then try out some referrals.

410
00:15:46,703 --> 00:15:48,040
I'll send you people,

411
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:49,030
you send me people,

412
00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:52,150
and if it starts humming along then,

413
00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:55,060
yeah, let's establish a
more formal relationship

414
00:15:55,060 --> 00:15:57,000
because this thing is really clicking.

415
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,510
But what I hesitate to do

416
00:15:59,510 --> 00:16:01,190
is try to do that right up front

417
00:16:01,190 --> 00:16:03,570
before any back and forth has happened,

418
00:16:03,570 --> 00:16:05,980
because it takes a little effort

419
00:16:05,980 --> 00:16:07,760
and now you feel like you're on the hook

420
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,470
and they haven't really sent you anybody,

421
00:16:09,470 --> 00:16:10,580
but you sent them people,

422
00:16:10,580 --> 00:16:12,850
and it just gets a little,

423
00:16:12,850 --> 00:16:15,830
I don't know, administrative.

424
00:16:15,830 --> 00:16:17,450
So what I like to do is just,

425
00:16:17,450 --> 00:16:19,350
let's try it informally,

426
00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:20,660
see if it starts clicking,

427
00:16:20,660 --> 00:16:22,240
and if it does,

428
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,410
then let's talk to each other about

429
00:16:24,410 --> 00:16:28,570
a paid referral system

430
00:16:28,570 --> 00:16:30,550
and it's all, money's always good,

431
00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:34,520
but I don't like that to
be the first approach.

432
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:35,630
- Got you.

433
00:16:35,630 --> 00:16:37,440
What additional thoughts do you have

434
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,750
about referral partnerships
that we've not discussed?

435
00:16:40,750 --> 00:16:44,600
- Yeah, the other thing
is I think accountability.

436
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,190
So like, let's say we
have great conversations

437
00:16:47,190 --> 00:16:49,600
where I think, wow,

438
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:50,433
there's so many times

439
00:16:50,433 --> 00:16:53,170
that I could introduce you and vice versa,

440
00:16:53,170 --> 00:16:54,360
and then we meet in a month

441
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,140
and nothing has happened.

442
00:16:56,140 --> 00:16:59,150
Well, let's don't don't
scoot that into the rug,

443
00:16:59,150 --> 00:17:00,110
let's talk about, well,

444
00:17:00,110 --> 00:17:01,556
why didn't it happen?

445
00:17:01,556 --> 00:17:03,240
What about our approach

446
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,123
in that intervening month,

447
00:17:05,123 --> 00:17:06,840
'caused us not to do the things

448
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:07,950
that looked so great

449
00:17:07,950 --> 00:17:10,130
that would've helped our businesses?

450
00:17:10,130 --> 00:17:12,590
I think when the
relationship is deep enough

451
00:17:12,590 --> 00:17:14,080
to be open about things

452
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,170
that didn't work out the way you plan,

453
00:17:16,170 --> 00:17:20,070
I think that's when you
can start trusting more

454
00:17:20,070 --> 00:17:21,870
and then be more productive.

455
00:17:21,870 --> 00:17:24,190
And the other thing is

456
00:17:24,190 --> 00:17:26,648
if you start a referral relationship

457
00:17:26,648 --> 00:17:28,530
and for whatever reason,

458
00:17:28,530 --> 00:17:30,782
it doesn't pan out, that's okay.

459
00:17:30,782 --> 00:17:31,881
It's kind of like,

460
00:17:31,881 --> 00:17:33,140
you try your best,

461
00:17:33,140 --> 00:17:34,876
and maybe you still have a friend,

462
00:17:34,876 --> 00:17:37,180
but you're just, can't do business

463
00:17:37,180 --> 00:17:38,530
like you thought you could.

464
00:17:38,530 --> 00:17:40,770
So don't beat yourself up

465
00:17:40,770 --> 00:17:42,290
if every referral partner

466
00:17:42,290 --> 00:17:43,943
doesn't turn out to be awesome.

467
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:46,450
- So you're stressing the importance

468
00:17:46,450 --> 00:17:47,760
of being transparent,

469
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,272
be accountable.

470
00:17:49,272 --> 00:17:50,930
- Yeah.
- And be honest.

471
00:17:50,930 --> 00:17:52,240
- Yeah, I have that trust level.

472
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,990
So, when you first meet
somebody on LinkedIn,

473
00:17:54,990 --> 00:17:56,290
you don't know them,

474
00:17:56,290 --> 00:17:58,621
they could be a shady character,

475
00:17:58,621 --> 00:18:01,220
but once you get to know 'em,

476
00:18:01,220 --> 00:18:02,500
and establish trust,

477
00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:04,810
and share things back and forth,

478
00:18:04,810 --> 00:18:08,110
then you can be more transparent,

479
00:18:08,110 --> 00:18:10,760
more trusting, and not have

480
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,960
to worry about that person

481
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,220
'cause you know that person.

482
00:18:14,220 --> 00:18:16,050
And so that's what I like.

483
00:18:16,050 --> 00:18:17,803
The other thing is it's just,

484
00:18:18,850 --> 00:18:22,330
you can do business
where it's all hands off,

485
00:18:22,330 --> 00:18:24,320
you never meet many people

486
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,140
or you don't become in a
deep relationship with them.

487
00:18:27,140 --> 00:18:31,310
That's not as fun as
getting to know people,

488
00:18:31,310 --> 00:18:32,300
helping them out,

489
00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:33,810
and having them help you out.

490
00:18:33,810 --> 00:18:37,253
It's just a more fun way
to do business for me.

491
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:39,670
- Well said.

492
00:18:39,670 --> 00:18:42,200
Other thoughts about referral partnerships

493
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:43,590
that we've not covered.

494
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:46,150
- Yeah so, there is

495
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:50,380
a tracking to referrals.

496
00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:52,410
So let's say that you
and I have a meeting,

497
00:18:52,410 --> 00:18:56,520
and I say, Hey, I'm going
to approach this person

498
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:57,973
and try to introduce you,

499
00:18:59,928 --> 00:19:03,980
a good referral partner
will follow up on that.

500
00:19:03,980 --> 00:19:04,897
And they'll either say,

501
00:19:04,897 --> 00:19:06,480
"well, I tried to make it happen,

502
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,540
here's why they can't
talk to you right now,

503
00:19:08,540 --> 00:19:09,650
but maybe later,"

504
00:19:09,650 --> 00:19:11,960
or "hey, here's an introduction."

505
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,777
What they don't do is
the next time you talk.,

506
00:19:14,777 --> 00:19:16,880
"oh yeah, I forgot about that."

507
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,210
So when you make a commitment
to a referral partner,

508
00:19:20,210 --> 00:19:22,810
that's your credibility
that you're committing,

509
00:19:22,810 --> 00:19:23,643
you're saying,

510
00:19:23,643 --> 00:19:24,630
I'm going introduce you

511
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:26,430
or try to introduce you to somebody,

512
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:28,950
make sure you follow up on that.

513
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:32,660
Because once you blow that a couple times,

514
00:19:32,660 --> 00:19:34,380
the person's not gonna really trust,

515
00:19:34,380 --> 00:19:35,780
it's like a cry wolf thing

516
00:19:35,780 --> 00:19:36,910
where they're not gonna trust you

517
00:19:36,910 --> 00:19:38,860
the next time you commit to something.

518
00:19:38,860 --> 00:19:40,910
So I'd say that's important,

519
00:19:40,910 --> 00:19:43,160
and it can be complicated if you have,

520
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,650
and that gets back to how many
referral partners you have,

521
00:19:45,650 --> 00:19:48,050
if you have a thousand referral partners,

522
00:19:48,050 --> 00:19:50,660
just imagine trying to
track what you promised,

523
00:19:50,660 --> 00:19:53,850
it's hard, but if you
have a decent number,

524
00:19:53,850 --> 00:19:57,240
then you can remember who
you committed to what,

525
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,380
and hopefully you have a CRM

526
00:19:59,380 --> 00:20:03,023
or some other method of
keeping track of your promises.

527
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:05,630
- Have you found there's a kind of

528
00:20:05,630 --> 00:20:07,330
a general rule of thumb

529
00:20:07,330 --> 00:20:09,640
as to the number of referral partners

530
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,170
that you hover around,

531
00:20:12,170 --> 00:20:13,480
and you can keep up with?

532
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,470
- Yeah, I would say that,

533
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:18,789
I think it more,

534
00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:22,140
not as many referral partners,

535
00:20:22,140 --> 00:20:25,209
but how many ones-to-ones
can I do per week?

536
00:20:25,209 --> 00:20:27,433
So if you look at,

537
00:20:28,780 --> 00:20:30,520
do the math of how many

538
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,570
one-to-ones you can do per week,

539
00:20:32,570 --> 00:20:35,240
based on how busy you are in business,

540
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:36,690
and then multiply that

541
00:20:36,690 --> 00:20:38,898
by how frequently you
want to talk to people,

542
00:20:38,898 --> 00:20:41,430
be it a month or every six weeks,

543
00:20:41,430 --> 00:20:43,896
that will tell you how
many referral partners

544
00:20:43,896 --> 00:20:45,603
you can keep on that loop.

545
00:20:46,890 --> 00:20:49,480
So, if you can do,

546
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,340
let's say one one-to-one a day,

547
00:20:51,340 --> 00:20:53,343
that's five per week,

548
00:20:55,090 --> 00:20:58,830
it's 30, 35, 40 maybe,

549
00:20:58,830 --> 00:21:02,270
and I had a lot more than that one time,

550
00:21:02,270 --> 00:21:04,650
but you know, I couldn't
keep up with them.

551
00:21:04,650 --> 00:21:07,480
So I high graded them to the ones

552
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,010
that were more productive,

553
00:21:09,010 --> 00:21:11,230
and that I like to hang out with,

554
00:21:11,230 --> 00:21:12,980
and so that gave me

555
00:21:12,980 --> 00:21:14,873
kind of the 40 to 50.

556
00:21:16,060 --> 00:21:17,460
- I introduced your company,

557
00:21:17,460 --> 00:21:20,436
I gave the standard bio and we jumped-

558
00:21:20,436 --> 00:21:23,780
(phone ringing)

559
00:21:23,780 --> 00:21:24,662
- Sorry.

560
00:21:24,662 --> 00:21:27,329
(phone ringing)

561
00:21:34,753 --> 00:21:36,223
Oh, one...

562
00:21:36,223 --> 00:21:38,890
(phone ringing)

563
00:21:42,107 --> 00:21:44,650
I am so sorry, I hope you can cut that.

564
00:21:44,650 --> 00:21:46,180
- Well, we'll just plan on doing that,

565
00:21:46,180 --> 00:21:48,170
so what I'll do is we'll take a break

566
00:21:48,170 --> 00:21:50,523
and then I'll cut that part out.

567
00:21:51,450 --> 00:21:53,390
I'm confident that's one of your customers

568
00:21:53,390 --> 00:21:54,223
calling to say,

569
00:21:54,223 --> 00:21:56,620
"oh, thank you so much
for all this savings,

570
00:21:56,620 --> 00:21:58,706
let's talk about some more business."

571
00:21:58,706 --> 00:22:01,140
Alright, so I'm gonna
take, I'm gonna pause,

572
00:22:01,140 --> 00:22:02,050
we're gonna look at the camera.

573
00:22:02,050 --> 00:22:02,883
- Okay.

574
00:22:02,883 --> 00:22:05,242
- And let's see, I think we were,

575
00:22:05,242 --> 00:22:07,080
I think you were describing,

576
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,516
we were talking about the number of

577
00:22:09,516 --> 00:22:11,670
partners you can kind of keep up with.

578
00:22:11,670 --> 00:22:13,349
Why don't we move on to-

579
00:22:13,349 --> 00:22:14,182
- Yeah.

580
00:22:14,182 --> 00:22:15,015
- To the next,

581
00:22:15,015 --> 00:22:15,883
I think we were at

582
00:22:15,883 --> 00:22:16,716
a transition one.
- Yeah we were

583
00:22:16,716 --> 00:22:18,713
at the end of that, yeah.
- Okay, all right, you ready?

584
00:22:19,980 --> 00:22:21,423
- One more drink, sorry.

585
00:22:25,569 --> 00:22:29,160
I gotta figure out how
to cut my phone quicker.

586
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:29,993
Okay!

587
00:22:29,993 --> 00:22:30,826
Go.

588
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:33,510
- Thomas, do me a favor.

589
00:22:33,510 --> 00:22:35,409
Look back on your time

590
00:22:35,409 --> 00:22:38,410
with Schooley Mitchell and beyond,

591
00:22:38,410 --> 00:22:41,110
but can you reflect on a situation

592
00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:44,630
where either you or a client got stuck,

593
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:45,970
and when that happened,

594
00:22:45,970 --> 00:22:47,883
what did it take to get unstuck?

595
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,990
- Yeah, so I would say

596
00:22:50,990 --> 00:22:53,393
when I was ramping up
with Schooley Mitchell,

597
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:55,880
I had a situation where

598
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,840
I didn't have enough referral partners,

599
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,350
and I am deadly afraid of cold calls

600
00:23:02,350 --> 00:23:06,280
because I'm, you know, just not my thing,

601
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,040
I don't have a sales background.

602
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,540
And so I was stuck

603
00:23:10,540 --> 00:23:12,650
because I wasn't sure

604
00:23:12,650 --> 00:23:14,210
how quickly I could ramp up

605
00:23:14,210 --> 00:23:16,570
the referral part of my business,

606
00:23:16,570 --> 00:23:19,210
and I didn't have a lot
of clients coming in

607
00:23:19,210 --> 00:23:21,220
because I wasn't cold calling.

608
00:23:21,220 --> 00:23:24,100
So that was where I was stuck.

609
00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:26,710
And how I got unstuck is

610
00:23:26,710 --> 00:23:31,190
I just trusted the great referral partners

611
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:32,820
that I had.

612
00:23:32,820 --> 00:23:35,370
I made more follow ups with them

613
00:23:35,370 --> 00:23:37,417
and said, hey, we said,
this was gonna happen,

614
00:23:37,417 --> 00:23:39,430
what's the status?

615
00:23:39,430 --> 00:23:40,900
Not putting them on the spot,

616
00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:42,840
but just kind of making sure

617
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,100
that that was moving along,

618
00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:46,140
and before I knew it,

619
00:23:46,140 --> 00:23:49,760
not only were those commitments upheld,

620
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,780
but now things that we
hadn't even talked to

621
00:23:53,780 --> 00:23:56,890
came my way and I started to get clients

622
00:23:56,890 --> 00:23:58,240
even unexpectedly.

623
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,140
And that's kind of where I started

624
00:24:00,140 --> 00:24:01,570
to feel like, wow,

625
00:24:01,570 --> 00:24:05,200
referral partnerships
is like a sales force

626
00:24:06,250 --> 00:24:07,750
that's fun to be with.

627
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:08,987
It's kind of like,

628
00:24:08,987 --> 00:24:10,550
they're thinking about you,

629
00:24:10,550 --> 00:24:11,530
you're thinking about them.

630
00:24:11,530 --> 00:24:13,720
And so every time I would get a client

631
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,970
through this referral process,

632
00:24:15,970 --> 00:24:18,226
I'm thinking, wow,

633
00:24:18,226 --> 00:24:20,960
I'm not the greatest salesperson,

634
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,560
but I do have a great sales force for me,

635
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,410
and then that's my referral partners.

636
00:24:26,850 --> 00:24:29,160
- I never thought about
that in those terms,

637
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,670
to think of referral partners

638
00:24:31,670 --> 00:24:33,820
as pretty much your sales force,

639
00:24:33,820 --> 00:24:36,300
you have to invest in them

640
00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:38,393
and end the relationships.

641
00:24:38,393 --> 00:24:41,990
I suspect as you take
on additional clients,

642
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:43,890
you develop extra expertise,

643
00:24:43,890 --> 00:24:45,230
and so when you update,

644
00:24:45,230 --> 00:24:48,690
hey, I've now begun
working in this vertical.

645
00:24:48,690 --> 00:24:49,523
- Right.

646
00:24:49,523 --> 00:24:51,140
- Or I've helped this client this way,

647
00:24:51,140 --> 00:24:52,770
is you're educating us,

648
00:24:52,770 --> 00:24:54,680
your referral partners of ways

649
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,250
that you've helped your clients.

650
00:24:57,250 --> 00:24:59,609
That just makes us better informed,

651
00:24:59,609 --> 00:25:01,640
great example.

652
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,145
- Yeah, the other thing
about referral partners

653
00:25:04,145 --> 00:25:08,610
is you can't put all
your eggs in that basket,

654
00:25:08,610 --> 00:25:10,800
because what you don't want to do

655
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,980
is feel bad if they
don't refer you somebody

656
00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:16,460
that's not their fault,

657
00:25:16,460 --> 00:25:18,906
they tried, but you don't want to get

658
00:25:18,906 --> 00:25:20,850
into a situation of expecting them.

659
00:25:20,850 --> 00:25:24,057
You wanna be thankful every
time, but you don't want to be,

660
00:25:24,057 --> 00:25:25,590
"hey, you know, where are you?"

661
00:25:25,590 --> 00:25:28,440
It's like, that's not the way
referral partnerships work.

662
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,930
And so every time I start to feel

663
00:25:31,930 --> 00:25:35,910
like I need the referral gain to rise,

664
00:25:35,910 --> 00:25:39,540
what I do is emphasize
who I'm referring to,

665
00:25:39,540 --> 00:25:42,210
I refer more and more,

666
00:25:42,210 --> 00:25:43,920
and I try to keep my ratios

667
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,580
so that I'm sending people,

668
00:25:45,580 --> 00:25:47,600
more people than they're sending me.

669
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,421
And it's kind of a race to the top,

670
00:25:49,421 --> 00:25:50,800
I send them more,

671
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,987
they tend to send me more and on and on,

672
00:25:53,987 --> 00:25:57,853
it's a kind of a game in a positive way.

673
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:00,830
- Thomas what's interesting about this

674
00:26:00,830 --> 00:26:03,430
is literally we hit the record button,

675
00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:04,880
but what we've just done

676
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,580
is just continued our conversation,

677
00:26:07,580 --> 00:26:10,670
this is our third
conversation on this topic.

678
00:26:10,670 --> 00:26:12,600
And now I have a better understanding

679
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,650
of your expectations of me

680
00:26:15,650 --> 00:26:17,660
as a potential referral partner,

681
00:26:17,660 --> 00:26:20,310
and we've also are kind of establishing

682
00:26:20,310 --> 00:26:22,030
kind of the rules that we will follow.

683
00:26:22,030 --> 00:26:26,270
- Yeah.
- And that is transparency,

684
00:26:26,270 --> 00:26:28,100
and accountability,

685
00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:29,730
and the like.

686
00:26:29,730 --> 00:26:31,040
And then what you just said

687
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,897
is further evidence kind of who you are,

688
00:26:32,897 --> 00:26:35,160
and that is you have a tendency

689
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,110
to give generously,

690
00:26:37,110 --> 00:26:39,423
and the assumption is in doing so,

691
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:42,250
they'll just see you as

692
00:26:42,250 --> 00:26:43,910
that much of a stronger partner

693
00:26:43,910 --> 00:26:47,290
and want to be able to reciprocate.

694
00:26:47,290 --> 00:26:48,510
- Yeah, I think one thing

695
00:26:48,510 --> 00:26:51,350
that I maybe failed to say was that

696
00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:54,683
when somebody refers you to somebody,

697
00:26:55,990 --> 00:26:59,730
that is something of a very high priority

698
00:26:59,730 --> 00:27:01,040
for you to be successful at,

699
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,389
so you want to be sure and contact them.

700
00:27:03,389 --> 00:27:04,990
You want to be sure and take care of them,

701
00:27:04,990 --> 00:27:05,940
and you want be sure

702
00:27:05,940 --> 00:27:07,880
that when they get back
to your referral partner,

703
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,307
they rave about you.

704
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,620
Because you don't wanna get them

705
00:27:11,620 --> 00:27:13,187
to go back to your
referral partner saying,

706
00:27:13,187 --> 00:27:14,880
"wow, Tom was kind of a dud,

707
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,260
I mean, who is that guy?"

708
00:27:17,260 --> 00:27:19,075
That will kill the referral partnership

709
00:27:19,075 --> 00:27:21,360
because that person's
gonna be very hesitant

710
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:22,470
to send you the next one.

711
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:25,220
So it's kind of like
keeping you on your toes

712
00:27:25,220 --> 00:27:26,240
because it's like, uh-oh,

713
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,300
I got this golden egg of a referral,

714
00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:30,530
let's take care of it

715
00:27:30,530 --> 00:27:32,340
and make sure that when that person

716
00:27:32,340 --> 00:27:34,470
talks to the referral partner,

717
00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:37,650
that sent me that person's way,

718
00:27:37,650 --> 00:27:39,590
sorry about the mess up there,

719
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:42,080
but make sure

720
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,670
that they're raving about you,

721
00:27:44,670 --> 00:27:46,133
to the person that sent you.

722
00:27:48,260 --> 00:27:50,820
- Thomas, as you kind of look
back on our conversation,

723
00:27:50,820 --> 00:27:52,670
and we've said this twice,

724
00:27:52,670 --> 00:27:53,503
maybe three times,

725
00:27:53,503 --> 00:27:57,970
this literally has been
a continued conversation.

726
00:27:57,970 --> 00:27:58,803
- Yeah.

727
00:27:58,803 --> 00:27:59,690
- But you think about the
things we've discussed

728
00:27:59,690 --> 00:28:01,630
while recording this podcast,

729
00:28:01,630 --> 00:28:03,400
what would you want to be

730
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,320
some takeaways for our listeners?

731
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,290
- Yeah, the fact that referral partners

732
00:28:09,290 --> 00:28:13,410
are a way to gain trust

733
00:28:13,410 --> 00:28:15,610
with potential clients

734
00:28:15,610 --> 00:28:17,680
in a way that none other can't,

735
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,340
there's no other way to gain that trust,

736
00:28:20,340 --> 00:28:22,310
other than through a referral.

737
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:24,480
And so when you think about it that way,

738
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,450
it's really great when
somebody refers you.

739
00:28:28,450 --> 00:28:31,040
So take care of that referral,

740
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,090
make the person proud that sent you

741
00:28:34,090 --> 00:28:36,090
or gave you that introduction.

742
00:28:36,090 --> 00:28:39,360
And then think about how many people

743
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:40,780
you're trying to do that with.,

744
00:28:40,780 --> 00:28:42,450
and what's the bandwidth

745
00:28:42,450 --> 00:28:44,290
that you can spend the time,

746
00:28:44,290 --> 00:28:45,700
invest in that relationship,

747
00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:49,070
and really understand that person,

748
00:28:49,070 --> 00:28:50,460
and see if you can help them

749
00:28:50,460 --> 00:28:51,770
as much as they can help you,

750
00:28:51,770 --> 00:28:54,363
and that would be my takeaways.

751
00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:57,320
- Those are excellent.

752
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,070
And as expected,

753
00:28:59,070 --> 00:29:00,960
this was an enjoyable continuation

754
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,470
of our prior conversations.

755
00:29:03,470 --> 00:29:05,530
If folks listening,
wanna reach out to you,

756
00:29:05,530 --> 00:29:07,800
what's the best way for them to do so.

757
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,900
- Sure, Schooley Mitchell is

758
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:14,120
a large consultancy,

759
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,950
but my personal email is

760
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:20,440
thomas.gilman@schooleymitchell.com,

761
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:21,750
and my phone number,

762
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:26,750
I'm available 281-972-2377.

763
00:29:27,100 --> 00:29:28,423
Love to help people,

764
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,620
either through saving them money,

765
00:29:31,620 --> 00:29:32,930
talking about referrals,

766
00:29:32,930 --> 00:29:35,593
but love to meet people and help them out.

767
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,403
- Thomas, thank you so much.

768
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:42,280
- Yeah, my pleasure.

769
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,210
Thanks for inviting me,
I really appreciate it.

770
00:29:45,210 --> 00:29:47,540
- I also wanna thank our listeners

771
00:29:47,540 --> 00:29:49,040
for joining us today.

772
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,376
We upload the latest episode

773
00:29:50,376 --> 00:29:53,250
to all the major platforms weekly.

774
00:29:53,250 --> 00:29:54,760
So if you haven't already,

775
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,950
please subscribe.

776
00:29:56,950 --> 00:29:58,810
Got a couple questions for you,

777
00:29:58,810 --> 00:30:01,270
is your company growing quickly?

778
00:30:01,270 --> 00:30:03,480
Are you worried you don't
have the right people

779
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,050
and processes in place to handle

780
00:30:05,050 --> 00:30:06,730
the increased workload?

781
00:30:06,730 --> 00:30:08,660
If yes, let's talk.

782
00:30:08,660 --> 00:30:10,840
Head to bench-builders.com

783
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,940
to schedule a quick call.

784
00:30:12,940 --> 00:30:14,410
We'll explore ways to help you

785
00:30:14,410 --> 00:30:16,190
solve those nagging problems,

786
00:30:16,190 --> 00:30:18,897
so you can scale faster and smarter.

787
00:30:18,897 --> 00:30:21,420
So I'd like to thank you for joining us,

788
00:30:21,420 --> 00:30:22,360
and I hope you've picked up

789
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,200
on some tips from Thomas,

790
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,290
that will help you "Get
Unstuck & On Target."

791
00:30:28,290 --> 00:30:29,867
Until next time.

792
00:30:29,867 --> 00:30:32,534
(upbeat music)

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