Episode 72: The “No” Formula With Dr. Nancy Zare

Mike O'Neill - Welcome back to the "Get
Unstuck And on Target" podcast.

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I'm Mike O'Neill with Bench Builders

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and we help business leaders like you

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solve the tough people problems

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that are slowing your company's growth.

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Joining me today is Dr Nancy Zare.

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Nancy is a sales strategist

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and the founder of Rapport Builderz,

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who works with service-based
business owners

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who want to increase sales
without being salesy.

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Nancy earned her masters and
doctorate from Boston College

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and is a former professor of social work.

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She is the author of several books

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and we'll be focusing on her latest

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with co-author Mary Pekas.

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That book is entitled
"No pressure selling:

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15 Proven Formulas For
Getting Business Easily".

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Welcome, Nancy.

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Dr Nancy Zare - Oh, thank you, Mike.

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I'm so excited to join you

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and to be able to share
with your audience.

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Mike O'Neill - You know, we talked
before we started recording

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a little bit of all the things
that you could speak on,

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what probably would be most
meaningful to our listeners?

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And we kind of keyed in on something

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that you call the "No" formula
and we'll come back to that.

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But by the name, it's pretty much implied.

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If you own a business,
if you run a business,

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if you're in sales, you have to understand

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that "no" comes with the territory.

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And I was just really intrigued.

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What is it about this notion
of sounding and acting salesy

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that seems to be such a turnoff

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for business owners and for entrepreneurs.

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Dr Nancy Zare - I think it's our own
experience of being the customer

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and being on the receiving
end of the selling experience.

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And that's what turns us off.

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So because we don't like to be pressured

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and we don't like it to be
canned, robotic, salesy,

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we project that our customer
doesn't want that either.

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And I think that's true,
wouldn't you agree?

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Mike O'Neill - I agree wholeheartedly,

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and that's one reason I
wanted you as a podcast guest

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because this head game
that we tend to play,

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"I don't want to come across as salesy."

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It can really affect a business's ability

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to generate revenue.

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"I just don't want to sound
or come across that way,"

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so they just don't do that.

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Have you found that to be the case?

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Business owners, entrepreneurs
say, "Ugh, that's not for me.

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Let me do what I do best and..."

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Dr Nancy Zare - You're right, Mike,

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this is why I feel so
passionate about the work I do

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because the people that I serve best

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are the people who don't want
to come across as salesy.

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And as result, they either
don't ask for the sale,

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which of course kind of shoots
them in the foot, right?

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You're not gonna get a
sale you didn't ask for.

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And also, they take it
personally when someone says no.

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And it kind of wounds them.

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And because of that,
this is the reason why

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they're shy about asking
and why I feel so passionate

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about giving them the
tools and the confidence

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and the strategies for being able to speak

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in a genuine, authentic way,

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so that they can ask for the sale

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without it coming across as salesy.

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Mike O'Neill - So you mentioned helping giving them

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the tools and the confidence.

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Can you give us a kind of a sense,

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in what ways do you work with clients?

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How do you help clients?

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Dr Nancy Zare - So I work with people individually

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and I also have a group coaching program.

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And as you mentioned earlier,
I have a number of books,

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which is a great it way
to access the information.

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And I also have courses

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and there is a subscription
program, a membership program

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that gives you the content kind
of in small bite-size chunks

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so that you can play with it, absorb it,

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apply it and benefit
from it slowly over time.

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Mike O'Neill - I know that you work with folks

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from all types of
industries and in doing so,

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do you find that people
who own businesses,

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when they've got to go out and sell,

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they want to talk about
their product or service,

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what is it about when they have
to go and ask for the sale,

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they don't want to come across
as salesy, what do you find?

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We revert to the way we
always view sales people,

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and we just turn off and just clam up?

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Dr Nancy Zare - Well, we all kind of have
that stereotype in mind

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of the used car salesman, right?

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The fellow who says anything
in order to get the sale.

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And I think that is one of the reasons

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why people who are not
naturally gifted in selling

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feel shy and reluctant, hesitant

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about entering the sales
arena on the selling side.

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We've had those experiences
where the other person

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didn't listen to us,
where the other person

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kind of painted us into a corner

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by maybe shaming us or
pushing us in a manner

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we didn't want because, "Well,
didn't you say so and so,

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and such and such?"

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I mean, there are many sales
tactics and gimmicks out there

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that people study, people
learn, people teach.

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And I think it's because of that, Mike,

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that the person who feels very
genuine about serving people

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and is reluctant and shy
about being a salesperson.

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We're not professional
salespeople, we're architects,

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consultants, engineers.

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We identify with our educational
background and training,

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not as sales people.

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And so there's this disconnect

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that in order for me to
provide my wonderful services,

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I'm gonna have to sell it.

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And that's where people
feel queasy, uncertain.

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Obviously it causes a lot stress,
and it doesn't have to be.

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Selling can be fun,

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but it doesn't have to be
a game and a manipulation

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and something that leaves
you feeling kind of sleazy,

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dirty, discontent with
maybe selling your soul.

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Mike O'Neill - You know, I'm so glad
you brought up this.

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I was trying to get to this point

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and I may have awkwardly
asked the question,

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but when you go to school

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and you receive specialized
training in a certain area,

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you clearly have an interest,

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you may even have a passion for that,

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or you're making a product

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and you know that that
product will help others.

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And you mentioned that
sometimes people say,

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"Just let me do what I
went to school to do."

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And do you find that
there's a tendency sometimes

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to either let somebody else do the selling

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or they just kind of clam up?

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And I guess what I'm hearing

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is you work a lot with business owners

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to kind of give them that self confidence

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that they can be effective,

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regardless of kind of how they are.

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Their personality and the like,

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am I understanding that correctly?

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Dr Nancy Zare - You're right on target, Mike.

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I often ask people,
what is their business,

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their occupation, and they answer.

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And then I say, "But that's
not really what you do.

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You have to market and sell what you do

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in order to become the person
that you were trained to be."

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And for many of us, like you said,

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we look for a way to circumvent
it to short change it

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because we want to get
to what we love to do.

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If you've been trained
to be a photographer,

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if you've been trained to be an engineer

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and a problem solver,

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then honestly you're not
trained in marketing and sales.

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And so, as you said,
what is it that I can do

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maybe to delegate it, ask
somebody else to do it.

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The truth is, Mike, that the best person

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for selling you is you,

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and there's no escaping that.

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And once you've established yourself

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and you've begun to develop

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a good foundation for your business,

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it's possible to bring on someone else.

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However, you are still gonna always be

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your best salesperson, I promise.

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And hence, that's why you
need to invest in yourself

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in order to feel comfortable.

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'Cause when you're at a networking event

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of whatever sort, virtual or in person,

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invariably someone's
gonna ask you what you do

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and you need a powerful answer

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that is going to attract
the right customers to you

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because of the fact that you
know how to sell yourself.

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Mike O'Neill - Excellent explanation.
I appreciate that.

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The main title of y'all's
book is "No Pressure Selling".

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It's unfair for me to ask this,

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but I want to try it nonetheless.

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If you were to kind of
summarize what can be done

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to take the pressure off,
either the seller or the like,

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what is it that you are
trying to get across

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to the reader of your book

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that means that you can
be effective in sales

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without necessarily
using pressure tactics?

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Dr Nancy Zare - So there are three things
that I'd want to answer, Mike.

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First is to always ask for permission

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throughout the sales process,
even from the get-go.

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"May I have your business card?

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May I make an appointment with you?

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With your permission, could
we schedule some time?"

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When you ask for permission
and the other person grants it,

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you never have to worry about being pushy,

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aggressive or salesy.

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The second principle is to have

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a natural unscripted conversation.

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Again, if it sounds
like you have memorized

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or you're just spewing
words that are by rote,

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it comes across as salesy.

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So to have a natural
conversation, believe it or not,

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there are various techniques
that we offer in the book

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for how you can actually
have a very natural

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unscripted conversation
and yet have this outline

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or formulas for what it
is you're going to say.

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And then finally, and this is definitely

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where my psychology background comes in,

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is to adjust your communication
to match the buyer's style.

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Many people are familiar
with personality systems.

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The idea that there
are four different ways

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that people are actually
biologically programmed

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to think and to act and to make decisions.

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I call them buying styles,

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because of course I'm into sales, right?

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So I call them buying styles.

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When you adjust your conversation

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to match the other person's style,

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it's like speaking German.

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If you're talking to somebody from Germany

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or changing to Swahili, et cetera.

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So when you change your communication

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to match the other person,
you're not being inauthentic,

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you're actually helping
this person communicate

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and understand you better

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because of the fact you
are using their language,

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their communication style.

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And so those three things, Mike,

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absolutely ensure that you
will not come across as salesy.

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You'll come across in a
genuine, authentic way.

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And you'll come across in
a way that the prospect

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finds likable, because you're like me,

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you're talking like me,

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you're respecting me by asking permission

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and you don't sound salesy
because it's natural.

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Mike O'Neill - So the question was,

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how does one sell without coming across

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as being pressure-filled.

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And you've given us three tips,

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let me see if I understood
those correctly.

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And that is by asking permission
throughout the process,

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they're giving you, basically
permission to continue on.

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So that's a green light,

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but the continue on is
less sales presentation,

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and more conversation.

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You described kind of
a natural conversation.

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And it's a conversation with the purpose

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but you're trying let it
evolve in a more natural way.

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Am I hearing that correctly?

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Dr Nancy Zare - Perfect. Perfect.

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And again, if you understand

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the stages of the sales process,

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and as you said, Mike, there is a purpose,

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there's a goal to
advance your relationship

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and thus advance the sales process.

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If you understand where you're going

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and you can read the other
person, your prospect,

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where they are in the process,

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you're on the same page,

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it becomes an easy natural
conversation like you said.

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Mike O'Neill - I want to come back to
that process here in a moment

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because that third point is one

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that I'm particularly interested

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in learning a little bit more about.

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And that is if you're
having a conversation,

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a natural conversation with someone

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who's given you permission,

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and the conversation has some purpose.

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You mentioned that you have
to be aware of their styles.

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You described as their buying styles.

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How do you help your clients understand

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what the style differences are?

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Dr Nancy Zare - So there are six ways
that you can identify style

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within less than a minute.

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And this is what I offer in the book,

00:14:53.210 --> 00:14:55.780
as well as to my clients.

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First is how people talk,
their actual vocal qualities,

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fast, low, do they pause,
is their inflection?

00:15:04.500 --> 00:15:08.190
All of these are clues as to their style.

00:15:08.190 --> 00:15:12.000
How they look, what clothing
do they choose to wear,

00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:15.600
their accessories, their
eyeglasses, their hairstyle,

00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:20.270
makeup, et cetera, how they look.

00:15:20.270 --> 00:15:22.580
The third is how they behave.

00:15:22.580 --> 00:15:24.700
When you meet somebody for the first time,

00:15:24.700 --> 00:15:26.230
are they looking you in the eyes?

00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:28.230
Do they give you a firm handshake?

00:15:28.230 --> 00:15:30.840
Do they greet you in some other way?

00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:34.330
Do they gesticulate and
gesture as they're talking?

00:15:34.330 --> 00:15:37.260
These are again clues about their style.

00:15:37.260 --> 00:15:39.230
The fourth is correspondence,

00:15:39.230 --> 00:15:43.090
because perhaps you're
exchanging some emails or writing

00:15:43.090 --> 00:15:47.440
or you can actually go read
something that they've written

00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:51.050
and the words they use
and the way the formatting

00:15:51.050 --> 00:15:54.500
of their writing is another clue.

00:15:54.500 --> 00:15:56.650
That brings us to social media.

00:15:56.650 --> 00:15:59.850
Social media's a combination
of their pictures,

00:15:59.850 --> 00:16:02.640
how they look, what they choose to post

00:16:02.640 --> 00:16:06.160
in terms of their
photographs and their words.

00:16:06.160 --> 00:16:07.630
How they describe themselves,

00:16:07.630 --> 00:16:10.390
even the title they give themselves

00:16:10.390 --> 00:16:12.970
is a clue as to what their style is.

00:16:12.970 --> 00:16:16.040
And the last one, which is the way,

00:16:16.040 --> 00:16:17.550
now because of Zoom,

00:16:17.550 --> 00:16:20.210
actually being able to
look into people's offices

00:16:20.210 --> 00:16:24.390
and homes and see how they
decorate or not decorate

00:16:24.390 --> 00:16:28.540
because that again is another
clue as to their style.

00:16:28.540 --> 00:16:30.550
So those are the six ones, Mike,

00:16:30.550 --> 00:16:34.860
and I provide the secret decoder ring,

00:16:34.860 --> 00:16:38.780
I make the invisible visible
so that these are things

00:16:38.780 --> 00:16:41.930
that you are getting all the time.

00:16:41.930 --> 00:16:44.290
I mean, you're listening
to somebody right now

00:16:44.290 --> 00:16:47.390
and you know that they're
either talking fast or slow

00:16:47.390 --> 00:16:50.793
or loud or soft, but you
don't know what that means.

00:16:51.643 --> 00:16:52.653
I can tell you.

00:16:53.770 --> 00:16:54.770
Mike O'Neill - You know, I was intrigued

00:16:54.770 --> 00:16:56.640
as you were describing these things

00:16:56.640 --> 00:16:58.550
and that, as you well know,

00:16:58.550 --> 00:17:03.060
we record this podcast
in both audio and video

00:17:03.060 --> 00:17:06.080
and the video is uploaded
to a YouTube channel.

00:17:06.080 --> 00:17:08.260
I've always been intrigued
to talk to folks,

00:17:08.260 --> 00:17:12.850
to find out some much prefer
listening to a podcast,

00:17:12.850 --> 00:17:15.930
some prefer to watching the podcast,

00:17:15.930 --> 00:17:19.770
and it's interesting where
those preferences kind of lie.

00:17:19.770 --> 00:17:24.770
So you have challenged
us as business leaders,

00:17:24.890 --> 00:17:26.600
when we're in a sales role,

00:17:26.600 --> 00:17:30.230
if we want to be effective in selling

00:17:30.230 --> 00:17:32.830
without adding too much pressure,

00:17:32.830 --> 00:17:37.620
you've encouraged us kind
of embrace those three tips.

00:17:37.620 --> 00:17:39.640
Ask permission.

00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:42.840
By asking permission, they're inviting you

00:17:42.840 --> 00:17:45.590
into a conversation,

00:17:45.590 --> 00:17:50.590
that the conversation has a
natural flow, it has a purpose,

00:17:52.340 --> 00:17:54.590
but while you're having that conversation

00:17:54.590 --> 00:17:57.940
and moving towards a certain purpose,

00:17:57.940 --> 00:18:00.380
you're encouraging us to be attuned

00:18:00.380 --> 00:18:03.440
to the person we're interacting with.

00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:05.950
And you've given us six examples,

00:18:05.950 --> 00:18:09.330
their talk, their look, how they behave,

00:18:09.330 --> 00:18:12.050
if they have examples of correspondence,

00:18:12.050 --> 00:18:15.040
how do they present
themselves on social media?

00:18:15.040 --> 00:18:17.210
And the last one, one that we didn't see

00:18:17.210 --> 00:18:21.450
coming two years ago is
the power of Zoom or Teams

00:18:21.450 --> 00:18:25.200
when people are working from
oftentimes home environments,

00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:28.330
different environments,
but you also can see things

00:18:28.330 --> 00:18:30.120
that you might not be able to pick up on

00:18:30.120 --> 00:18:31.670
if you're on the phone.

00:18:31.670 --> 00:18:36.670
All of those kinda lead
to the next question.

00:18:36.840 --> 00:18:40.640
There are different parts
of the sales process.

00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:44.057
Whereas you're trying to get to "yes".

00:18:44.057 --> 00:18:46.440
"Yes, I will buy your product.

00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:50.000
Yes, I will buy your service."

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:55.000
However, more often than
not, what you hear is "no".

00:18:55.520 --> 00:18:58.270
And then in large part
is what I was hoping

00:18:58.270 --> 00:19:00.163
we get a chance to kind of chat on.

00:19:01.100 --> 00:19:06.100
You share that you have
developed kind of a formula

00:19:06.250 --> 00:19:09.890
and this formula has
proved very successful.

00:19:09.890 --> 00:19:14.520
But this formula can convert
more than 85% of buyers

00:19:14.520 --> 00:19:19.520
who first said no to say yes.

00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:20.880
Would you give us a little insight

00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:23.120
about that formula please?

00:19:23.120 --> 00:19:24.330
Dr Nancy Zare - Okay, definitely.

00:19:24.330 --> 00:19:27.100
And first of all, I want
to give a lot of credit

00:19:27.100 --> 00:19:30.910
to Mary Pekas, who is my
co-author and colleague.

00:19:30.910 --> 00:19:35.910
Mary started a virtual call
center back over 50 years ago

00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:39.403
when such a thing did not exist.

00:19:40.718 --> 00:19:45.718
She spent 35 years of her career
developing various formulas

00:19:46.910 --> 00:19:50.830
because she did inbound
and outbound calling.

00:19:50.830 --> 00:19:52.660
I have taken those formulas,

00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:56.140
I've freshened them up
for the 21st century,

00:19:56.140 --> 00:19:59.310
and also at the same time
I have worked with them.

00:19:59.310 --> 00:20:02.480
So over 35 years of development

00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:05.010
have gone into the "No" formula.

00:20:05.010 --> 00:20:10.010
Every word has been carefully
researched and crafted.

00:20:10.350 --> 00:20:15.020
And in addition, not only
the words, but the delivery,

00:20:15.020 --> 00:20:18.290
because words that are memorized, again,

00:20:18.290 --> 00:20:20.110
we talked about that a moment ago,

00:20:20.110 --> 00:20:22.730
about how it comes across as salesy.

00:20:22.730 --> 00:20:26.350
Words that are memorized are a turnoff,

00:20:26.350 --> 00:20:31.170
and it sounds like gibberish
as opposed to meaning.

00:20:31.170 --> 00:20:34.600
And so it's important that you practice

00:20:34.600 --> 00:20:37.880
and rehearse the "No" formula
so that it's very comfortable.

00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:40.130
It comes off your tongue easily,

00:20:40.130 --> 00:20:45.030
but that it doesn't sound
like a memorized statement.

00:20:45.030 --> 00:20:48.750
So with having been said that, Mike,

00:20:48.750 --> 00:20:51.600
shall I just plow into the "No" formula.

00:20:51.600 --> 00:20:53.720
Mike O'Neill - Please do.

Dr Nancy Zare - Okay.

00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:56.730
So your prospect has just said no,

00:20:56.730 --> 00:20:59.950
perhaps you've asked
for their business card.

00:20:59.950 --> 00:21:01.890
Maybe you've asked for an appointment.

00:21:01.890 --> 00:21:04.440
Maybe you want to follow up an appointment

00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:06.830
and the person has said no.

00:21:06.830 --> 00:21:09.540
You need a response to this,

00:21:09.540 --> 00:21:11.787
and the response goes like this.

00:21:11.787 --> 00:21:15.570
"Yes, the timing isn't always right,

00:21:15.570 --> 00:21:18.520
however, with your permission,

00:21:18.520 --> 00:21:21.047
may I touch base with you periodically?"

00:21:23.290 --> 00:21:25.491
Now I'm a psychologist,

00:21:25.491 --> 00:21:28.940
with your permission and with
your audience's permission,

00:21:28.940 --> 00:21:32.650
let me unpack and give you insights

00:21:32.650 --> 00:21:35.340
into that simple little formula.

00:21:35.340 --> 00:21:39.680
The decision maker said
yes and your response is...

00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:44.680
I mean, the decision maker said
no and your response is yes.

00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:47.630
Well, the decision maker
was looking for pushback,

00:21:47.630 --> 00:21:51.230
they were looking for you to
debate or argue or tell them

00:21:52.760 --> 00:21:54.840
how they should change their mind.

00:21:54.840 --> 00:21:58.830
And instead, surprise,
surprise, pleasantly,

00:21:58.830 --> 00:22:00.280
you're agreeing with them.

00:22:00.280 --> 00:22:02.240
And agreement is a beautiful thing

00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:04.420
when you want to have a relationship,

00:22:04.420 --> 00:22:07.710
build rapport and keep
that connection going.

00:22:07.710 --> 00:22:10.290
So you say yes, and furthermore,

00:22:10.290 --> 00:22:14.090
you're giving them a
reason why they said no.

00:22:14.090 --> 00:22:16.633
Well, the timing isn't always right.

00:22:17.590 --> 00:22:19.650
That's the reason they said no,

00:22:19.650 --> 00:22:22.377
as opposed to, "No, I don't
want to meet with you.

00:22:22.377 --> 00:22:26.320
No, I don't like you,
no, get out of my life."

00:22:26.320 --> 00:22:28.070
No, you're telling them instead

00:22:28.070 --> 00:22:32.190
that it's, "No, the timing
isn't always right."

00:22:32.190 --> 00:22:34.250
And now that we're aligned,

00:22:34.250 --> 00:22:37.440
now that we're linking
arms and we feel connected

00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:39.610
and we're together on the same page

00:22:39.610 --> 00:22:41.397
and your decision maker's gone,

00:22:41.397 --> 00:22:44.710
"Whew, I don't have to
fight with this person."

00:22:44.710 --> 00:22:46.290
You add the word however.

00:22:46.290 --> 00:22:49.730
However is a signal that we are shifting,

00:22:49.730 --> 00:22:52.110
but we're doing the shift together.

00:22:52.110 --> 00:22:54.520
This is important for you to know,

00:22:54.520 --> 00:22:57.440
that we have linked arms and together

00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:59.440
we're going to make a shift.

00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:03.620
However, with your permission, may I?

00:23:03.620 --> 00:23:06.700
Of course that's what I've been suggesting

00:23:06.700 --> 00:23:11.460
that will give you the
opportunity to go forward

00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:13.330
is to ask for permission.

00:23:13.330 --> 00:23:15.270
You're inviting them
and you're giving them

00:23:15.270 --> 00:23:19.977
the power to again, continue
with the relationship.

00:23:19.977 --> 00:23:21.920
"With your permission, may I?"

00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:24.950
And then here's where,
folks, the language comes in.

00:23:24.950 --> 00:23:28.590
Touch base, touch base is kind of generic.

00:23:28.590 --> 00:23:32.770
It doesn't really tell you
exactly what we're gonna do.

00:23:32.770 --> 00:23:34.960
It's touch base, right?

00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:37.640
Stay in contact, be in connection.

00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:39.980
And then periodically again,

00:23:39.980 --> 00:23:43.670
the timeframe is
open-ended, "Periodically".

00:23:43.670 --> 00:23:48.670
It's not pinning down tomorrow,
next week, a month from now.

00:23:49.840 --> 00:23:51.760
Now interestingly enough,

00:23:51.760 --> 00:23:54.940
we have experimented
with this "No" formula

00:23:54.940 --> 00:23:57.317
and you can add things like,

00:23:57.317 --> 00:23:59.330
"May I touch base with you in two weeks?

00:23:59.330 --> 00:24:01.410
May I touch base with you in a month?"

00:24:01.410 --> 00:24:02.660
And that's okay.

00:24:02.660 --> 00:24:07.190
But the periodically is
bound to get them to say yes.

00:24:07.190 --> 00:24:10.260
And again, what are they saying yes to?

00:24:10.260 --> 00:24:13.290
They're saying yes to
continuing the relationship,

00:24:13.290 --> 00:24:16.760
which, Mike, that's the
most important thing, right?

00:24:16.760 --> 00:24:18.900
Is to have that relationship.

00:24:18.900 --> 00:24:23.900
Because 97% of buyers are
not ready to buy today.

00:24:24.800 --> 00:24:26.820
Mike O'Neill - Can you repeat that one more time?

00:24:26.820 --> 00:24:31.820
Dr Nancy Zare - Yes, 97% of buyers are
not ready to buy today,

00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.270
but they could become your
customer in the future.

00:24:37.270 --> 00:24:41.860
So by all means, the
fortune is in the follow-up.

00:24:41.860 --> 00:24:45.310
By all means, you want to
maintain that relationship

00:24:45.310 --> 00:24:48.330
and connection with the individual.

00:24:48.330 --> 00:24:53.330
The sales statistics tell
us that over 70% of sales

00:24:54.250 --> 00:24:57.290
are made after the seventh contact.

00:24:57.290 --> 00:25:01.350
And that statistic came
before digital marketing

00:25:01.350 --> 00:25:03.250
was so prevalent.

00:25:03.250 --> 00:25:07.080
I now believe that it's
more like the 12th contact

00:25:07.080 --> 00:25:08.840
because of the fact that there

00:25:08.840 --> 00:25:11.610
are so many contacts
happening on the internet

00:25:11.610 --> 00:25:14.470
by people going to
websites and landing pages

00:25:14.470 --> 00:25:18.220
and exchanging text messages and so forth.

00:25:18.220 --> 00:25:21.650
So again, this "No" formula,

00:25:21.650 --> 00:25:25.390
you need to be prepared
when your prospect says no.

00:25:25.390 --> 00:25:27.670
It's not the end of the relationship,

00:25:27.670 --> 00:25:30.170
it can be the continuation
of the relationship

00:25:31.370 --> 00:25:33.583
and that's what you want to maintain.

00:25:37.070 --> 00:25:38.480
Mike O'Neill - We started this conversation

00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:41.280
by talking about sales reluctance.

00:25:41.280 --> 00:25:43.750
Some folks have sales reluctance

00:25:43.750 --> 00:25:48.430
because they perceive
sales people as pushy,

00:25:48.430 --> 00:25:50.950
pressure-fueled, and you're trying to say

00:25:50.950 --> 00:25:52.940
it doesn't have to be that way.

00:25:52.940 --> 00:25:57.680
That the best person to sell you is you,

00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:01.660
but it needs to be a
genuine reflection of you.

00:26:01.660 --> 00:26:04.030
And so you've encouraged us thus far.

00:26:04.030 --> 00:26:07.420
Is that in engaging a prospect,

00:26:07.420 --> 00:26:10.570
you're tr trying to get to "yes".

00:26:10.570 --> 00:26:13.637
Now, "yes" doesn't
necessarily mean the ultimate,

00:26:13.637 --> 00:26:15.320
"Yes, I'm buying your product."

00:26:15.320 --> 00:26:17.810
The yes would be a yes that will allow you

00:26:17.810 --> 00:26:22.370
to continue the conversation
to advance the process.

00:26:22.370 --> 00:26:24.160
Now you've kind of pointed out,

00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:28.267
but if you get to that point
and now you get a "no".

00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:34.320
It doesn't necessarily
mean "No, not ever."

00:26:34.320 --> 00:26:37.800
You're pointing out that
as a general rule of thumb,

00:26:37.800 --> 00:26:42.260
the number of contacts
required has gone up.

00:26:42.260 --> 00:26:47.260
It was said to be, it takes
seven contacts to get a sale.

00:26:48.790 --> 00:26:51.530
And that accounts for 70% of sales.

00:26:51.530 --> 00:26:54.557
You think it's it's much higher,
it could be as many as 12.

00:26:54.557 --> 00:26:57.930
And so what that presents
is more opportunities,

00:26:57.930 --> 00:26:59.880
if you would, for "no,"

00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:02.650
but what you're
encouraging us as listeners

00:27:02.650 --> 00:27:07.650
is don't let that "no"
be totally defeating.

00:27:08.170 --> 00:27:13.170
And that if we could
internalize these magic words

00:27:14.370 --> 00:27:16.820
in the way that you laid it out,

00:27:16.820 --> 00:27:18.450
let me see if I got that right.

00:27:18.450 --> 00:27:22.037
If you hear "no," your response may be,

00:27:22.037 --> 00:27:26.430
"Yes, the timing is not right.

00:27:26.430 --> 00:27:29.500
However, with your permission,

00:27:29.500 --> 00:27:32.630
may I periodically touch base with you?"

00:27:32.630 --> 00:27:33.573
Did I hear that?

00:27:34.907 --> 00:27:39.090
Dr Nancy Zare - Yay, A+ for Mike, A+. Yes you did.

00:27:39.090 --> 00:27:41.170
And I want to share something else

00:27:41.170 --> 00:27:44.240
because I think it's important for you

00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:46.820
and our listeners to also recognize.

00:27:46.820 --> 00:27:51.380
And that is that maybe you
did ask specifically for them

00:27:51.380 --> 00:27:56.270
to hire you or to buy your
product, and they said no.

00:27:56.270 --> 00:27:59.350
Continue to touch base with them,

00:27:59.350 --> 00:28:03.140
continue to ask for permission
to maintain the relationship,

00:28:03.140 --> 00:28:05.090
and I'll tell you why.

00:28:05.090 --> 00:28:09.510
Because when people purchase
some other product or service,

00:28:09.510 --> 00:28:14.150
it could be the other person
who delivers it, they fail,

00:28:14.150 --> 00:28:16.820
they don't meet the specifications

00:28:16.820 --> 00:28:19.200
that this person or the expectations

00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:21.760
that your decision maker had.

00:28:21.760 --> 00:28:24.300
And as result, when you stay in touch

00:28:24.300 --> 00:28:28.650
and you keep that relationship
going, surprise, surprise,

00:28:28.650 --> 00:28:31.803
you may actually get
the sale down the road.

00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:34.683
So important, Mike.

00:28:36.300 --> 00:28:39.210
The "no" doesn't mean
no to the relationship,

00:28:39.210 --> 00:28:42.540
the "no" is, "Not now,
the timing's not right."

00:28:42.540 --> 00:28:44.377
And as long as they're telling you,

00:28:44.377 --> 00:28:46.970
"Beat it, I don't
anything to do with you."

00:28:46.970 --> 00:28:49.050
As long as they're giving you permission

00:28:49.050 --> 00:28:52.600
to continue to be in the
relationship, you've got a chance.

00:28:52.600 --> 00:28:54.453
So keep on slugging there.

00:28:55.660 --> 00:28:58.530
Mike O'Neill - Nancy, you are a sales
strategist, you're a sales coach.

00:28:58.530 --> 00:29:01.830
You've worked with folks to help them

00:29:01.830 --> 00:29:04.620
really internalize these concepts.

00:29:04.620 --> 00:29:09.200
Can you share an example were
a client of yours got stuck,

00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:10.160
and when they got stuck,

00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:12.643
what did it take for them to get unstuck?

00:29:13.840 --> 00:29:17.090
Dr Nancy Zare - So the situation that comes in mind

00:29:17.090 --> 00:29:20.390
was a coaching client a few years back,

00:29:20.390 --> 00:29:25.390
who was during COVID, she was
prospecting on the internet.

00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:28.590
And she hit it off with somebody

00:29:28.590 --> 00:29:30.900
and they were exchanging messages

00:29:30.900 --> 00:29:33.290
through that particular platform.

00:29:33.290 --> 00:29:36.780
And it seemed like they
were getting pretty cozy.

00:29:36.780 --> 00:29:40.240
So much so that the
prospect asked for proposal,

00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:44.803
which my client went ahead,
prepared, and sent off.

00:29:46.450 --> 00:29:50.100
And then crickets, silence.

00:29:50.100 --> 00:29:52.387
And nowadays they call
it, "Being ghosted."

00:29:54.010 --> 00:29:58.000
And it so happened, she
sent follow-up messages,

00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:03.000
still got the blank,
curtain closed, no response.

00:30:03.380 --> 00:30:06.170
So at our next coaching call that week,

00:30:06.170 --> 00:30:10.490
she talked to me about the
situation and here's the scoop.

00:30:10.490 --> 00:30:13.160
She had asked for permission,
that wasn't the problem.

00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:16.750
She was having a natural
unscripted conversation.

00:30:16.750 --> 00:30:19.200
But what the challenge was

00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:21.680
is she did not adjust her style

00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:24.560
to match the prospect's buying style.

00:30:24.560 --> 00:30:27.180
The prospect was a relational buyer.

00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:29.600
She was all about
connecting heart to heart,

00:30:29.600 --> 00:30:32.840
being a friend, wanting that bond,

00:30:32.840 --> 00:30:36.490
feeling like this was a relationship.

00:30:36.490 --> 00:30:40.660
And my client, as soon as she sensed

00:30:40.660 --> 00:30:43.810
the possibility of a
sale, send me a proposal,

00:30:43.810 --> 00:30:46.050
she became very transactional

00:30:46.050 --> 00:30:47.527
and very much focused on,

00:30:47.527 --> 00:30:49.490
"I want the business, here's the proposal,

00:30:49.490 --> 00:30:50.610
this is what it's gonna cost,

00:30:50.610 --> 00:30:52.360
here's when we're gonna start."

00:30:52.360 --> 00:30:56.117
It turned off the prospect to
the point where she was like,

00:30:56.117 --> 00:30:59.450
"What's happened to the person
I thought was a friend?"

00:30:59.450 --> 00:31:03.310
So I pointed this out to my client.

00:31:03.310 --> 00:31:06.970
While we were in the coaching session,

00:31:06.970 --> 00:31:09.397
she texted a message that said,

00:31:09.397 --> 00:31:12.300
"Look, I want to maintain our friendship,

00:31:12.300 --> 00:31:15.900
it's important that we
continue our relationship.

00:31:15.900 --> 00:31:18.600
And I'm sorry if anything I did

00:31:18.600 --> 00:31:20.980
kind of pushed the wrong button."

00:31:20.980 --> 00:31:24.570
Within five minutes, we were
still on the coaching call,

00:31:24.570 --> 00:31:27.350
we got a text back,
the relationship was on

00:31:27.350 --> 00:31:31.180
and later she went on to get a new client.

00:31:31.180 --> 00:31:34.560
So yes, we can get stuck

00:31:34.560 --> 00:31:36.430
and again, if you know what to do,

00:31:36.430 --> 00:31:40.030
when either you get
ghosted or someone says no,

00:31:40.030 --> 00:31:42.743
then you're gonna be prepared to succeed.

00:31:44.650 --> 00:31:47.130
Mike O'Neill - That's a fantastic illustration,

00:31:47.130 --> 00:31:49.670
but because of your background

00:31:49.670 --> 00:31:51.950
and that you were able to pick up on

00:31:51.950 --> 00:31:56.270
that she transitioned from a
relationship-based interaction

00:31:56.270 --> 00:31:58.540
to almost a transactional,

00:31:58.540 --> 00:32:03.030
is that the client picked up
on that, that's very astute.

00:32:03.030 --> 00:32:06.470
But it's really remarkable
that in your coaching call,

00:32:06.470 --> 00:32:07.750
she sent the text,

00:32:07.750 --> 00:32:11.640
and within the time of your coaching call,

00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:14.610
the soon-to-be client responded back.

00:32:14.610 --> 00:32:17.130
That's a great illustration.

00:32:17.130 --> 00:32:18.470
Thank you on that.

00:32:18.470 --> 00:32:20.960
Dr Nancy Zare - Yeah, and it can
happen just that quickly.

00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:24.400
Because when the other
person feels we're alike

00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:27.520
and, "You get me and you're
speaking my language,"

00:32:27.520 --> 00:32:31.080
the trust builds, the
comfort level is high,

00:32:31.080 --> 00:32:34.500
the sales resistance drops
and that opens the door

00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:38.400
to doing business together, and
that's exactly what I teach.

00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:41.120
Keep those doors open,
keep the trust high,

00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:44.823
the comfort level high,
and you will have success.

00:32:46.390 --> 00:32:50.930
Mike O'Neill - Nancy we have talked a
bit about how to go about

00:32:50.930 --> 00:32:53.900
selling in a no-pressure way,

00:32:53.900 --> 00:32:55.890
and we've put particular emphasis

00:32:55.890 --> 00:32:59.910
on when we encounter the
"no", which is inevitable.

00:32:59.910 --> 00:33:02.870
What might be some things that we can do

00:33:02.870 --> 00:33:05.880
to turn that no into a yes.

00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:08.720
As you kind of look back
on our conversation,

00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:12.433
what do you want to be the
takeaways for our listeners?

00:33:13.600 --> 00:33:15.300
Dr Nancy Zare - Actually, my biggest takeaway, Mike,

00:33:15.300 --> 00:33:19.840
is your effectiveness as a listener.

00:33:19.840 --> 00:33:22.190
And I hope that your listening audience

00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:25.450
will model after that,

00:33:25.450 --> 00:33:28.670
because not only has Mike
paid proper attention,

00:33:28.670 --> 00:33:30.680
and I know he's taken a few notes,

00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:34.800
but noticed that he's
paraphrased what he heard,

00:33:34.800 --> 00:33:36.780
made sure that he understood.

00:33:36.780 --> 00:33:39.810
I mean, his listening
skills are impeccable.

00:33:39.810 --> 00:33:44.810
And they say that God gave
us one mouth and two ears,

00:33:45.760 --> 00:33:48.940
and that we're supposed to
use them in that proportion.

00:33:48.940 --> 00:33:51.560
And I just want to tip
my hat to you, Mike,

00:33:51.560 --> 00:33:54.150
that you are the consummate listener.

00:33:54.150 --> 00:33:57.820
Listening is such an
important skill in sales,

00:33:57.820 --> 00:34:00.990
to listen to our clients,
to ask the right questions

00:34:00.990 --> 00:34:03.830
so that they do open
up and tell us things,

00:34:03.830 --> 00:34:06.880
so that again, we can
use our listening skills

00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:09.440
and really understand their situation.

00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:13.270
So kudos to you, Mike, you are amazing.

00:34:13.270 --> 00:34:15.690
Mike O'Neill - Oh, you're very kind. Thank you so much.

00:34:15.690 --> 00:34:19.980
Nancy, the folks who've been
listening and/or watching this

00:34:19.980 --> 00:34:21.930
are bound to want to reach out to you.

00:34:21.930 --> 00:34:24.763
What's the best way for
them to connect with you?

00:34:25.962 --> 00:34:28.940
Dr Nancy Zare - Well, you can find me
very actively on LinkedIn

00:34:28.940 --> 00:34:33.940
at linkedin.com, NancyZare, all one word.

00:34:34.350 --> 00:34:36.370
And Zare rhymes with care.

00:34:36.370 --> 00:34:38.690
So just put a Z in front of it,

00:34:38.690 --> 00:34:41.860
or of course on Facebook or my website,

00:34:41.860 --> 00:34:44.470
which is rapportbuilderz.com.

00:34:44.470 --> 00:34:45.810
And I certainly look forward

00:34:45.810 --> 00:34:48.470
to connecting with people on your show.

00:34:48.470 --> 00:34:52.660
If you let me know that you
heard me on Mike's show,

00:34:52.660 --> 00:34:57.030
guess what, I'll give you
a special secret surprise.

00:34:57.030 --> 00:34:59.710
Mike O'Neill - Oh, wonderful inducement on that.

00:34:59.710 --> 00:35:03.510
It's LinkedIn that you
and I crossed paths on

00:35:03.510 --> 00:35:08.050
and your posts are very informative.

00:35:08.050 --> 00:35:13.050
I learn from you Dr Zare,
every time I read your posts.

00:35:14.050 --> 00:35:17.040
So thank you so much for sharing

00:35:17.040 --> 00:35:20.313
just a bit of your expertise
with our listeners today.

00:35:21.630 --> 00:35:23.337
Dr Nancy Zare - Well, thank you again for having me.

00:35:23.337 --> 00:35:26.590
It was a real joy and
pleasure to talk with you.

00:35:26.590 --> 00:35:28.670
And again, to be the recipient

00:35:28.670 --> 00:35:31.240
of such great listening skills.

00:35:31.240 --> 00:35:33.800
Mike O'Neill - Ah, golly, now I guess
I got to close this out

00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:36.530
but you're very, very kind.

00:35:36.530 --> 00:35:39.790
I do want to thank our
listeners for joining us today.

00:35:39.790 --> 00:35:42.480
Every Thursday we upload
the latest episode

00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:44.620
to all the major platforms.

00:35:44.620 --> 00:35:47.343
So if you haven't
already, please subscribe.

00:35:48.540 --> 00:35:50.230
My question for our listeners.

00:35:50.230 --> 00:35:53.360
Are people problems
keeping you up at night?

00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:55.390
If yes, let's talk.

00:35:55.390 --> 00:35:59.313
Head to bench-builders.com
to schedule a quick call.

00:36:00.330 --> 00:36:02.610
I'll hopefully be
listening, but in doing so,

00:36:02.610 --> 00:36:05.250
we'll explore ways to help you solve

00:36:05.250 --> 00:36:06.890
those nagging people problems,

00:36:06.890 --> 00:36:10.500
so you can again, focus
on growing your business.

00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:12.700
So I want to thank you for joining us

00:36:12.700 --> 00:36:15.300
and I hope you've picked
up on some tips from Nancy.

00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:19.220
They'll help you get
unstuck and on target. Until next time.