In today’s episode, Mike O’Neill engages in a captivating conversation with Terri Lonowski, a renowned expert in soulful listening and communication. Terri shares her insights on the power of active listening combined with empathy, highlighting the transformative potential it holds for personal and professional growth.
Discover the five elements of soulful listening, the importance of self-care and self-discovery, and the impact of inspired action. Join us as Terri unveils the secrets to cultivating meaningful connections and unlocking your full potential through the art of soulful listening.
Terri Lonowski’s Bio
Authentic, deeper communication through evolutionary listening!
When we are heard and supported on a deep level, our potential is unleashed. Problem is, we don’t feel heard, and the consequences are devastating. As a solution, I created a five-element holistic approach called Soulful Listening®️, to soften loneliness, inspire greater human potential, and heal the communication divide experienced in relationships, at work and in our personal lives.
I know first-hand the power of deep listening. Through my Grandma Helga’s all-in listening my potential was set free, and I eventually ended up on a TEDx Stage and at The White House – twice. A sought-after national and international speaker, I’m eager to share this powerful gift! Soulful Listening®️ keynotes, workshops, TV, or podcasts appearance inspire deeper, authentic, fulfilling communications through evolutionary listening. The world needs it, and together we can soften loneliness and inspire greater human potential!
In This Episode…
- Discover the transformative potential of soulful listening and its impact on personal growth and relationships.
- Learn how self-care and active listening combined create a richer and more meaningful connection with others.
- Understand the importance of self-discovery and inspired action in achieving personal and professional goals.
- Explore the power of storytelling and how it can inspire and motivate change.
- Gain practical tips and actionable steps to incorporate soulful listening into daily life for improved communication and understanding.
Links & Resources Mentioned…
Mike O'Neill: Welcome back to the Get Unstuck and On Target podcast. I'm Mike O'Neill. Whether it's our team at Bench Builders working with a company, or it's me coaching a high performing CEO one-on-one, getting people unstuck is at the heart of everything I do, and that's exactly what this podcast is all about.
Each week I bring you incredible guests. Who shared their hardwar experiences getting themselves or others unstuck back on target and moving forward, I hope it gets you unstuck and on target as well. So I've got a question for you. Do you ever feel a longing to connect and be heard on a deeper level at work or in a personal relationship?
If the answer is yes, you're gonna really enjoy today's guest. Joining me today is Terri Lonowski. Terri is the founder of Soulful Listening. She's passionate about sharing the inspiring power of deep listening. She has shared this passion all over the world, including a TEDx talk that's already had over 150,000 views.
Terri Lonowski: Mike, I have been so looking forward to our conversation. Thank you for inviting me to your wonderful podcast.
Mike O'Neill: You know, it's funny, I, I try to sometimes remember how I meet people to invite on the podcast, and I think I'm correct at saying this. I was a panel member of an event that you were in attendance in, and we met literally in the buffet line.
And I think we met because the, the person who organ organized, she kind of, she says, Mike, you need to meet Terri. Terri meet Mike. And we had a very brief conversation and here you are on the podcast. Thank you.
Terri Lonowski: Oh, thank you. Yeah, that's exactly how we met. It was the executive director of that national organization and she saw some synergy between the two of us and, and connected us.
And I'm so grateful for that.
Mike O'Neill: Well, I'm grateful. Grateful for it as well. You know, we were thinking about what might be the potential topic. Here's what I kind of wrote down, and that is our topic is gonna center around the notion of authentic, deeper communication through what you call evolutionary listening.
Can you walk us through what does that mean?
Terri Lonowski: For me, that means you know, we, we really are in a time in our world where we really long to connect on a deeper level. There's so much loneliness, disconnect, and disengagement, whether it be in the workplace or impersonal relationships. And, you know, I think I had shared a statistic with you about the breadth of loneliness.
And Cigna did a study and there over half of the American population reports being lonely. And the health implications are equivalent to smoking 15 cigarettes a day. And the impact of that exceeds obesity as far as. Mortality. So anyway you know, there, there's just such a need and so I have developed a holistic approach to connecting on a deeper level that I call soulful listening.
And there are five easily repeatable elements to that approach, and I'd like to share that with the, with your listeners at some point. But it's really, you know, really calling on all of us to step up our. Game as far as how we communicate and how we listen and how we take care of ourselves. So we can do that even better.
Mike O'Neill: You know, Terri, what kind of is a prelude to posting a podcast is just as the pandemic hit. I was encouraged. Why don't you host a webinar? I didn't even know what a webinar was. And the suggestion was you don't just host the webinar, it's live. And what I end up doing is inviting people onto the webinar experts, if you would, so that we all can kind of learn together.
And we end up doing that every, every week for 26 weeks. Now why do I share that story? When the pandemic hit, we were all confused. Everybody was scrambling. But that statistic that you just shared and that percentage of loneliness, how can we be lonely with all of these things that we carry in our pocket or in our purse connecting us?
And what is it about today's environment where people feel lonely?
Terri Lonowski: Oh, that is such a rich and deep question, and I, I will take a little bit of time to unpack that. We have the technology, which I, you know, I'm a fan of technology. I am also a proponent of using it to connect on a deeper level, and there's a way to do that.
But what we oftentimes find is that the number of followers we have, the number of engagements that we make on social media platforms, we're, we're thinking that we're actually connecting with people. So let's say a person could have, you know, like 50,000 followers, yet over the course of the past month, they may not have sat down and had a vulnerable conversation with another, another human being.
And we as humans are designed to thrive when we feel seen and heard and connected with others. Period. And so when that is not happening, we, we have kind of an angst inside and we have kind of a story going that, you know, there's something wrong with me. There's something just doesn't feel right and that, you know, covid of course compounded things, but it, it persists even now.
Even now. And so I also believe that, you know, like really meaningful conversation and communication skills are not being modeled. Well, either at home or in the workplace. And so when, when that's absent, it just, it really compounds the, you know, the loneliness, the disengagement, the isolation, which is, which is painful.
It's painful to not be connected.
Mike O'Neill: Terri, let me quote you for a moment. When we are heard and supported on a deep level, our potential is unleashed. Problem is, We don't feel heard and the consequences are devastating. You just basically mirrored that in what you just shared with us. You know, when people hear this notion of soulful listening, what is the first thing they think this is about and what is soulful listening genuinely about?
Terri Lonowski: Right, right. So when, when we talk about soulful, you can think of like soul music and, and that sort of thing. You know, it has that deep, you know, kind of vibration to it. It has that deep resonance. And so that's what's kind of like intuited and then what it, it is, it has like an element of that in it, but it is a five element approach.
To connecting on a deeper level, which I had mentioned before. And I, I think I'll just kind of skim over those five. So we have like a framework from which we can have the rest of our conversation. And so the, the first element is self-care. And we rarely hear the direct connection between self-care and high quality communication.
However, it is cornerstone and it's more than a bubble bath. I mean, it could include a bubble bath, but it's way more than a bubble bath. And it would involve things like, how are we talking to ourself? What's that internal loop that's going on? What kind of healthy boundaries are we setting? How are we taking care of our physical body?
You know, so it's all woven together. And self-care is, you know, it's a gift you give not only to yourself. It's a gift you give to everyone you come in contact with. And so when we're filled up, we fill our cup, so to speak, we can connect from overflow, from abundance, we have access to all that we are, if we are depleted, we can't even make good judgment.
In our own lives, let alone be there for another and be uplifting to another person. So self-care is the first element, and that kind of sets us up for the second element of soulful listening, which is becoming fully present. Imagine we've all had situations where we can almost envision a bubble above a person's head with a list of things they're thinking about.
We feel it. Yet when someone presents themselves, when they're all in all there, we feel that also. And sometimes it may be a little abstract to becoming present. So, in live events and also on podcasts, I love to invite your listeners to breathe with me. Three intentional breath. To just see what that feels like and the way that we're going to do that.
We'll breathe into the count of four. We'll hold, and then we'll breathe out to the count of six. We'll do this three times and I invite you to first check in with your body. Just kind of wiggle around a little bit, see how you feel, just kind of get in your body. Okay? And now we're gonna breathe in through our nose.
1, 2, 3, 4. Hold. Out through our mouth. 1, 3, 4, 5, 6. Again in 2, 3, 4. Hold out. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and a final time in 2, 3, 4. Hold out two. 3,
4, 5, 6. Notice your body now.
Mike O'Neill: Yes.
Terri Lonowski: The energy has shifted between us and I imagine your your listeners as well. So when we truly take care of ourselves and we become fully present, we bring a quality of grace and compassion into our conversations.
Which allows us to go deeper and connect on a deeper level. And that sets us up for the third element of soulful listening, which I call quantum listening. And if active listening and empathy had a love child, it would be this element of soulful listening. And it's where we listen all in with every fiber of our being through every source we have available.
Our five senses, of course, and also our heart. Our intuition, we pick up on nuances that we wouldn't otherwise, and we, we connect on this deeper level. We often gain insights into how we might be helpful to another person, and that sets us up for the fourth element of soulful listening, which I think is kind of the secret sauce and it's inspired action.
When you get an insight on how you might be helpful to another. And we all have access to connections and resources, and you just got one right before before we jumped on the call. And when that is extended, no strings attached. It's incredibly powerful. So, And then the fifth element is where we tie it all together and we let another person know that we've taken this action.
Again, no strings attached. And the reason that's so important, sometimes we can have conversations. We feel heard, we may have file ourselves. We feel like a person's gonna like be there for us, and then crickets when in fact they may have taken action, but they just didn't let you know. But there's beauty in this full cycle.
When you know somebody has your back, they've taken action. They let you know so you're not hanging in the abyss. And imagine what this cycle will feel like the next time you have a conversation with that person, you'll be a little more relaxed, a little more authentic, a little more vulnerable, because you know it's safe.
You know you can trust this person and you reciprocate as well. And so that really is the evolution of communication as far as I'm concerned.
Mike O'Neill: Terri, is that. Fifth step, is that a feedback loop?
Terri Lonowski: Yes. So it's called, I call it the feedback loop, and that is, you know, circling back with a person and keeping them in the loop of what's going on.
Let's say maybe you're in the work setting. A person has made a really great suggestion and perhaps you are the person that holds the position that that suggestion will be. Taken seriously at the higher level. So you would let the person that you had that conversation with? No. Hey Jerry, you know, such a great idea.
I'm taking, I'm running it up the chain and we'll see where it goes, but I wanted to let you know that that is what's going on behind the scenes.
Mike O'Neill: You know, I kind of blurted out how we met, but what I failed to mention when I said that is, What made an impression on me, I don't know if I shared this with you already, and that is we were in a very crowded room.
We were standing at the end of a buffet line, someone was introducing us. I think I was scheduled to be one of the next speakers, and so I might have normally been a little bit preoccupied. I wasn't sure if you were another speaker or if you were a participant. Here's what happened, Terri, in that moment, I experienced you being fully present.
The noise, the smells, all that was gone and for a very brief amount of time, we made eye contact and I heard. That person introducing us, but I didn't automatically think, okay, let's exchange business cards, da da da, da da. I just experienced Terri in that moment, and I think I did because Terri purposefully was fully present.
And so I just, I, I shared with you, you, you not knowingly. Model what is one of your five steps? Now we were not necessarily in the ideal setting for listening, but let me see if I got this right. The five steps, self-care, fully present, quantum listening and inspired action. And the feedback loop.
Terri Lonowski: Exactly.
Mike O'Neill: I like to unpack those a little bit more. And because most of our listeners are leaders. I wanna try to be thinking of, in a leadership setting, how does this impact one's potential effectiveness as a leader becoming a more effective listener? In what ways might that result in being perceived both by themselves and by others, as being a more effective leader?
Terri Lonowski: Oh, love that question. Love that question. But first, I want to thank you for your acknowledgement. And you know, the, my intent is to embody what I speak about. And so to have you, have you noticed that is very affirming and very makes my heart warm. So as far as leaders you know, re leadership is all about relationships.
As is any good business or any good business growth, there are good relationships that are happening along the way. And for an employee, let's say you have like a high caliber employee that you want to retain. Let's say it's a, you know, the younger generation, and I know what I know for sure is if.
If it, if a high caliber employee does not feel heard, if they do not feel like their ideas are being embraced and action is taken upon them, they will, they're, they're savvy enough. They, you know, are loyal enough in the moment to do what they need to do in their current workplace. It's not like they would sabotage anything but one eye will be looking.
Out the door looking for that next opportunity. They'll be, you know, when they're in a social setting or a networking setting, they'll be, you know, open to an exit. So, as far as, you know, why does listening matter to leaders? You know, like, Employee retention actually tapping into the talent that's really there.
I believe that, you know, we are at a time in our world where the problems are so significant that we need the best and the brightest in each of us. More fully expressed. I believe that solutions are locked and held hostage inside of people right now. So like the leader of now that will really make a difference will be that leader that can tap into.
That locked up potential. So I think that that will, that will help a leader to stand out. When I talk to, you know, like recruiters that are recruiting for the C-Suite, what they are saying time and time again is one of the criteria that they're looking for. One of the top run criteria will be soft skills.
That was not always the case, but it is. In today's world, collaboration is happening more and more. And so to be able to tease out the, the skill sets and the the opportunities for connect listening will be critical.
Mike O'Neill: Yeah. The setting in which we met is the gathering of leaders. With the US Staffing Association.
So these are recruiters, what you just described can apply to any leader. It's interesting when you said this, what you pointed out is that by listening more effectively, a leader probably is gonna get better outcome from their folks and they're going to improve engagement and they're going to lower turnover.
If for know the reason is because people felt heard.
Terri Lonowski: Yeah. And being heard is powerful. I mean, it's just, it is powerful. And when we, when we look at, and I had conversations with a, a couple of HR leads for Fortune 100 companies in the Atlanta area, which I is a place in which I live and like from Home Depot, from the Atlanta Braves, and they are, Echoing time and time again that that is one of their key skills that they are spending time developing.
Would be the listening. So it's, you know, it is echoed time and time again of the importance and, you know, we, we, it makes sense when we just take a, take a step back and, and feel our way through this. And I also like to encourage people to listen to themselves. You know, like if we look at a leader. And if they are, you know, if they have some cognitive dissonance going on, if there's some agitation inside, I would invite you to just pause for a moment, take a few breaths, and kind of sort through.
There's a reason that that's happening. You have, you know, I can, your, your gut is telling you something and so to kind of be with that and, and, and unpack it. You used that word earlier. I like to unpack that. And so we listen not only to others listening to ourselves and then taking action. You see,
Mike O'Neill: I have never heard self-care describe that way, but I think it's very, very powerful if you are able to listen to yourself.
And be in tune there. You're far more likely to be fully present when you're attempting to listen to others. I love how you take that self-care and, and, and point out that includes listening to yourself and I've never heard it explained that way. You know, we work through self-care. We've talked a little bit around fully present.
We only very briefly touched on this. Quantum listening. And I just don't want that to be left unexplored. Can you maybe explain that a little better please.
Terri Lonowski: Sure. And so when I, when I kind of describe quantum listening as the, the love child of active listening and empathy, active listening alone and empathy alone are not enough.
You know, if we, if we look at active listening and you know, we're echoing back what we hear a person say, we're nodding our head. I mean, that isn't the whole picture and you can't even do that if you have not taken care of yourself. But that's, we've already kind of woven that into the thread that goes throughout, but it, but you know, just, just acknowledging a person.
And there are workshops that go on for weeks at a time that are teaching active listening, or they're teaching empathetic ways of being with another person. And that is not enough. But when you marry the two, then you have a richness. A richness to your interaction and you're honing your skills a little bit more.
And it is again, that next evolution of how we connect as humans.
Mike O'Neill: I find when I'm working with key leaders, particularly in a coaching setting, this is oftentimes what results in us beginning working together. They realize they have very good, capabilities. They know they're craft. But the things that they really want to improve upon often are these soft skills that we're talking about.
And self-discovery is usually the very first thing that I try to put emphasis on. And so this dovetails very, very nicely to at least my approach to coaching. The fourth step, which you describe as being the secret solves inspired action. Inspired action. Tell us what that means.
Terri Lonowski: So that is, you know, let, let's say we have this deep conversation and you're, you're struggling.
Okay. The, we're in the work setting. We'll just kind of stay with that for now in the work setting and okay. You're more of a, you're more in a support role and you're doing multiple reports and they are co colliding with one another and you're fed up. You're fed up and you as the leader, the supervisor, having a, having this conversation with the person that works, you know, alongside you, you may, you know, like rate them and, and whatever.
So you're, you're in a more, at an elevated position and you see them, you know, the term beat red and you know they're gonna bolt if we don't take care of this. But then you hear, you present it back to them and say, what might we do with this? And then you turn it back over and let that person kind of work through what their idea might be because they know more about the situation than anybody else cause they are hip deep in it and it's grading them to the core.
And so then they present this thought or this idea to you, so then you are inspired to support them. In a way that's meaningful. So you take action and you elevate that idea and you support it wholeheartedly. You endorse it and then you let the person know the feedback loop. You let them know, Hey, this is what's going on.
Mike O'Neill: Okay. I'm not quite sure I know the answer to this question, so let me blur this out. Okay. I know you to be a dynamic speaker. . I've watched parts of your TEDx talk and it was very, very good. Thank you. When you're working with clients, is it typically in a setting where you're speaking to a group?
Are you working with smaller groups? Do you work one-on-one? How do you most typically interact with your clients?
Terri Lonowski: Right now I'm, I'm on stages a lot. That's kind of where I'm focusing and also being on you know, virtual platforms, whether they be global or, or on a smaller scale. But I find that the reach is more scaled.
By doing this. And that's, I'm kind of committed to doing that right now. I've done, you know, workshops with smaller groups and that is, you know, that can be a lot of fun and you can see results like right away. So that's, that's fun also. And most of the time I am, you know, either keynoting or like we are doing a, you know, a podcast or again, a summit, that sort of thing.
Mike O'Neill: I got you. As you're, I. Presenting therefore to these audiences . And you've got your, your five steps, it's clear kind of in your head, but you're trying to make sure that they really get it. What do you find helps them to take these concepts, internalize them so they're actionable?
Terri Lonowski: Right. What I, what I would do first before any kind of a speaking engagement, I would have like multiple conversations with the leadership so that I could tailor whatever I am, whatever audience I'm speaking to, to their needs. I think that is important. I'm also really good at responding to on the fly questions, so I would.
You know, like in that moment, tailor it. And I have like a breadth of stories and examples because I think that that is that people connect with storytelling, they connect with the stories, they can remember them, they can apply them in their lives. And what I will challenge people to do is to take that first step.
You know, I want everybody that I spend time with to walk away with an actionable next step. I believe that, you know, breaking it down to where it is digestible. So let's say it's a self-care. Let's say somebody maybe hasn't slept but three hours for a week. You know, I would encourage them, you know, try for the next three days.
See if you can go to bed, maybe an hour earlier. See what can, what you can do there if you're out walking the dog, notice something in nature. You know, not stretch it so far beyond what their life looks like right now, but I believe in going to that next level up, that next level up, applying one step, picking a conversation over the course of the next week.
One conversation. Probably not starting out with a really high stakes conversation, although soulful listening is ideal. Ideal for high stakes conversations. But, you know, pick one conversation, take a couple of breaths. You don't even need to make any proclamation, any big announcement. Just get in your body and then put the laundry list aside for just a moment.
Take a breath and listen, and if you get an insight that maybe making a call on somebody's behalf or maybe making an introduction, you know, take that one step. I believe in starting small, but I believe in starting. You know, and yeah, go ahead.
Mike O'Neill: What do you find is the reason why people don't start? Is there a common reason?
Terri Lonowski: I believe in many ways they haven't been exposed to something that is so simplistic, yet powerful. You know, with, with soulful listening, you know, we went through the five elements. They were, you articulated them right back to me. This is the first time we've had this kind of a conversation. And so it, it, they're simple and in the simplicity, it's kind of deceptive on how very powerful they are.
And I think when we get So academic. And so talking about the theory behind and soulful listen has, you know, has a foundation in you know, in psychological principles. But we won't be talking about that. We'll be talking about how, how can we weave this into our lives right now when they're midst of, you know, juggling multiple things when you're under fire for whatever's going on, we still have to breathe, right?
So take a deep breath. And two.
Mike O'Neill: Yeah. When you invited me and our listeners to do that very thing. I'm sitting in, at a, at a office chair with these arms and I dropped my, my arms to the side and I was feeling my fingertips. I don't think I have felt my fingertips all day long. because I'm sitting right here poised and I, I think the sitting all day long is not good whatsoever.
Terri Lonowski: Right, right.
Mike O'Neill: Terri, you mentioned the power of storytelling. And you are a gifted storyteller. Can you think of perhaps an example, maybe in the form of a story where either you or someone you were working with got stuck and what did it take to get unstuck?
Terri Lonowski: Oh gosh. I love that so much. I'm gonna tell a story about myself, okay?
And I'm gonna bring my Grandma Helga into the room. Grandma Helga is an inspiration for soulful listening. She had a way of presenting herself that was. Timeless and unbelievable and powerful. So I was, you know, would always go to Grandma Haga when I needed to kind of sort through things. And I was in my early twenties.
I was deciding whether or not I was gonna go on and go to that next level of education, whether I was gonna tackle a master's degree. And so I was talking to Grandma Haga, and she had a way of setting the stage to be so inviting. There would be, you know, savory aromas, wafting in from the kitchen. She would sit down, put everything else aside, and then just tune in.
And so, when I presented this to her, she simply said, Terri, All you have to do is decide what you want to do and then take steps to doing it, and imagine what that's going to feel like. Bam.
Mike O'Neill: What makes that so powerful? Grandmother Helga. What she said?
Terri Lonowski: Yeah, what she said. I mean, there is so much woven into that, you know, for me, deciding what I wanted to do is, is so difficult sometimes.
And so this is where we bring in listening to yourself, you know, being in tune enough to yourself to realize what it is that you're having the angst about or what is calling you forward. What is kind of, triggered within you to evolve. And so, you know, decide what you want to do and then take steps to doing it.
It's not just keeping it in your head and letting it spin there. You have to get some traction under it and you can adapt along the way, but if you take no action, it dies on the vine. And then the power of imagining what it's going to feel like when you're there can be the catalyst that will keep you going.
So, During those moments when, when you might not want to. And so it's, it's very, it's very profound in its simplicity. It is profound.
Mike O'Neill: I have to agree 100% with you. You know, as I've have read about decision making, as someone who typically, often operates from my head, I'm making decisions that I think are just logical.
But I know what really drives those decisions, and that's the feeling. That it drives. And she literally, in three sentences, not even complete sentences, if you will decide, start doing and envision how you will feel when that's accomplished. What a powerful, motivator. To keep on doing that.
Now when you add the smells from the kitchen and you add her looking, you in the eyes, and I can deceive the apron that's got some stains on it. But you described her. For those who are not watching, I, I don't know. I would not know your, your grandmother, Helga, but you described her and you kind of leaned in.
I suspect she did the exact same thing. She truly modeled what you've kind of described, she really made it very purposeful. She tuned out whatever's on the stove, whatever it might be, going through her mind. And she was fully present. And that has made an impression on you that here now you're telling this story in a, in a powerful way.
Terri Lonowski: And it's a gift that she gave me and it, you know, like the way that she interacted with me is the foundation for soulful listening. And of course I've evolved it throughout my lifetime, but I feel like it's a gift that was given me that I am now freely giving to the world. We all need a little Grandma Helga in our life.
Mike O'Neill: I love grandma. I love the name. I mean, just kind of, it just, I just conjure up an image that is warm, smells good and she makes you feel good, but she also packs a lot of wisdom into that right process. Terri, we've covered a lot of different kind of things, but there may be some things you wanna make sure that our listeners really walk away with, what would you describe to be the takeaways you wanna make sure that we have?
Terri Lonowski: Right. And I would say, you know, my heart is extended to you. Wherever you are, you can do a little bit better, a little bit better, one step at a time and do start, do, start. You may be the only person in someone else's life that they feel heard by.
And there's power in that, and there's a way to do it. Now you have the tools that you can take with you and implement right now without any further instruction or guidance. But I would invite you to take a step and take a breath and listen more deeply.
Mike O'Neill: This has been phenomenal. If folks want to reach out to you, what's the best way for them to do so, Terri?
Terri Lonowski: Right. My website is a really good way to keep in touch with what's going on. And also if you, you wanted to book a call with me to talk about is speaking engagement or something along those lines soulfullistening.com. That's the best way, all one word, soulfullistening.com.
Mike O'Neill: We're gonna include it. We're probably also gonna include your LinkedIn profile so that people can reach out to you. That way you've got a great profile. It really just, it captures you. And I hadn't had a chance to see you in action like this, but I just wanna say thank you for sharing your expertise. Thank you for sharing your, your passion with us today.
Terri Lonowski: It has been my delight. Thank you so much.
Mike O'Neill: I also wanna thank our listeners for joining us today for even more insights about getting unstuck and moving your business forward. You can subscribe to this podcast by going to unstuck.show. While you're there, you can subscribe to our weekly management blog called The Bottom Line, but if you're trying to grow your business, but it's people problems that have slowed you down, let's talk. Head over to bench-builders.com to schedule a call. So I wanna thank you again for joining us, and I hope you have picked up on some quick wins from Terri that will help you get unstuck and on target.